[theme-reviewers] Tinymce button that only adds css codes.. still plugin territory?

Sun Mar 3 16:09:03 UTC 2013

>
> What is the *purpose* of the span/div wrappers with CSS classes?

Styling content with results of improving readability and usability of web
site?

On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:

> > I believe tinymce button thats just adding span,div with classes can be
> theme territory.
>
> Let's finish that discussion here, before moving to the ticket.
>
> What is the *purpose* of the span/div wrappers with CSS classes?
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <unsalkorkmaz at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Released 1.1.1 version:
>>
>> http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11449
>> Removed plugin territory features except tinymce button. I believe
>> tinymce button thats just adding span,div with classes can be theme
>> territory. Thanks everyone for your time
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>
>>> If there is no semantic value, then why would the user want to wrap
>>> content in <span class="foo bar"></span>? There is obviously some *use* or
>>> *purpose* for the user explicitly wrapping content in a container with
>>> defined CSS selectors. The *nature* of that intended purpose helps to
>>> clarify whether it is Theme territory or Plugin territory.
>>>
>>> Sometimes questions don't have a single, black-and-white answer, but
>>> instead depend on context. (For example: post custom meta boxes are not
>>> inherently Theme or Plugin territory; that determination depends on the
>>> intended use of the defined custom post meta data handled by those meta
>>> boxes.) So, by asking, "what is the semantic meaning of the code added by
>>> the TinyMCE buttons?" I'm trying to drive to the intended purpose, to
>>> ensure that we're all discussing the question in the correct context.
>>>
>>> I mentioned shortcodes among a list of other things in the Theme that
>>> are Plugin territory. Yes, it is a separate issue from the question of
>>> TinyMCE buttons, but in your OP, you said, "there are no shortcodes, only
>>> added TinyMCE buttons". I was merely pointing out that "there are no
>>> shortcodes" is untrue, because the Theme does define shortcodes (along with
>>> many other things that are Plugin territory).
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <unsalkorkmaz at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let's back up a bit: why would <span class="foo bar"></span> be added
>>>>> to post content to begin with? What is the semantic meaning of such a
>>>>> container?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seriously?
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Span_and_div
>>>> In HTML <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML>, the *span* and *div*
>>>> elements <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_element> are used for
>>>> generic organizational or stylistic applications, typically when extant
>>>> meaningful elements have exhausted their purpose.
>>>> *span* and *div* is not semantic.. its for design. Colors, boxes,
>>>> icons are not semantic.. Those are design that shows content better.
>>>>
>>>> Are we talking about core-defined shortcodes or not? If they're defined
>>>>> in core, why do they need to be defined in the Theme?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Original question:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> My theme:
>>>>> http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11437
>>>>> Theme is adding custom tinymce button that adds css code for design
>>>>> elements. There is no shortcode or something.. just css code.
>>>>> Its allowed in themes right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is a tinymce button added with theme. That button adds css code
>>>> when you click it. ITs not adding shortcode and esspecially i am saying its
>>>> not adding any shortcode. I NEVER said theme does not support any
>>>> shortcode. Theme is supporting 3 shortcode thats wordpress default
>>>> shortcodes: audio, video, gallery. Why did you link shortcodes file and
>>>> said "aha there is shortcode"? What is purpose here?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Let's back up a bit: why would <span class="foo bar"></span> be added
>>>>> to post content to begin with? What is the semantic meaning of such a
>>>>> container?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Daniel Tara <contact at onedesigns.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Speaking a bit more generally I believe there always be this conflict
>>>>>> between content generation and content presentation. Content generation is
>>>>>> plugin territory but if plugins also add their own styling what are the
>>>>>> chances that styling fits a random theme. I say not styled content is
>>>>>> better than ugly styled content. I think we should allow more middle ground
>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2013, at 4:10 PM, Ünsal Korkmaz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for review but i mean tinymce does not adding shortcode, it
>>>>>> adds css code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/shortcodes.php
>>>>>> Those shortcodes are wordpress's default shortcodes. audio, gallery,
>>>>>> video.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hmm, actually, there *are* shortcodes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/shortcodes.php
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And this is definitely Plugin territory:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/remove-comments-absolute.php
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And a good deal of this is Plugin territory:
>>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/fix.php
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And this is also probably Plugin territory (though a bit of a gray
>>>>>>> area):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/custom-sharing-buttons.php
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/custom-facebook-comments.php
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But, for the TinyMCE buttons: my initial reaction would be to say
>>>>>>> that they also are probably Plugin territory. What do the buttons do? What
>>>>>>> do they add to the post content? Wrap selected content in <span class="foo
>>>>>>> bar"></span> tags? Sure, that degrades more gracefully than un-parsed
>>>>>>> shortcodes, but it would still result in a bunch of unused markup scattered
>>>>>>> throughout the user's posts after switching Themes. *Thus, I would
>>>>>>> say that the TinyMCE buttons are also Plugin territory*. I would
>>>>>>> recommend defining the *styles* for the CSS classes added via the TinyMCE
>>>>>>> buttons, but make the underlying TinyMCE button functionality itself a
>>>>>>> Plugin.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <
>>>>>>> unsalkorkmaz at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> My theme:
>>>>>>>> http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11437
>>>>>>>> Theme is adding custom tinymce button that adds css code for design
>>>>>>>> elements. There is no shortcode or something.. just css code.
>>>>>>>> Its allowed in themes right?
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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