[theme-reviewers] Tinymce button that only adds css codes.. still plugin territory?

Sun Mar 3 16:13:34 UTC 2013

In that case, that styling of post content should be accounted for via
style.css. There's no reason for users to wrap post content with DIVs/SPANs
just to "improve readability and usability". It's the Theme's
responsibility to ensure readability and usability.

On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <unsalkorkmaz at gmail.com>wrote:

> What is the *purpose* of the span/div wrappers with CSS classes?
>
>
> Styling content with results of improving readability and usability of web
> site?
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:
>
>> > I believe tinymce button thats just adding span,div with classes can
>> be theme territory.
>>
>> Let's finish that discussion here, before moving to the ticket.
>>
>> What is the *purpose* of the span/div wrappers with CSS classes?
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <unsalkorkmaz at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Released 1.1.1 version:
>>>
>>> http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11449
>>> Removed plugin territory features except tinymce button. I believe
>>> tinymce button thats just adding span,div with classes can be theme
>>> territory. Thanks everyone for your time
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> If there is no semantic value, then why would the user want to wrap
>>>> content in <span class="foo bar"></span>? There is obviously some *use* or
>>>> *purpose* for the user explicitly wrapping content in a container with
>>>> defined CSS selectors. The *nature* of that intended purpose helps to
>>>> clarify whether it is Theme territory or Plugin territory.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes questions don't have a single, black-and-white answer, but
>>>> instead depend on context. (For example: post custom meta boxes are not
>>>> inherently Theme or Plugin territory; that determination depends on the
>>>> intended use of the defined custom post meta data handled by those meta
>>>> boxes.) So, by asking, "what is the semantic meaning of the code added by
>>>> the TinyMCE buttons?" I'm trying to drive to the intended purpose, to
>>>> ensure that we're all discussing the question in the correct context.
>>>>
>>>> I mentioned shortcodes among a list of other things in the Theme that
>>>> are Plugin territory. Yes, it is a separate issue from the question of
>>>> TinyMCE buttons, but in your OP, you said, "there are no shortcodes, only
>>>> added TinyMCE buttons". I was merely pointing out that "there are no
>>>> shortcodes" is untrue, because the Theme does define shortcodes (along with
>>>> many other things that are Plugin territory).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <unsalkorkmaz at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Let's back up a bit: why would <span class="foo bar"></span> be added
>>>>>> to post content to begin with? What is the semantic meaning of such a
>>>>>> container?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seriously?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Span_and_div
>>>>> In HTML <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML>, the *span* and *div*
>>>>> elements <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_element> are used for
>>>>> generic organizational or stylistic applications, typically when extant
>>>>> meaningful elements have exhausted their purpose.
>>>>> *span* and *div* is not semantic.. its for design. Colors, boxes,
>>>>> icons are not semantic.. Those are design that shows content better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are we talking about core-defined shortcodes or not? If they're
>>>>>> defined in core, why do they need to be defined in the Theme?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Original question:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> My theme:
>>>>>> http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11437
>>>>>> Theme is adding custom tinymce button that adds css code for design
>>>>>> elements. There is no shortcode or something.. just css code.
>>>>>> Its allowed in themes right?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a tinymce button added with theme. That button adds css code
>>>>> when you click it. ITs not adding shortcode and esspecially i am saying its
>>>>> not adding any shortcode. I NEVER said theme does not support any
>>>>> shortcode. Theme is supporting 3 shortcode thats wordpress default
>>>>> shortcodes: audio, video, gallery. Why did you link shortcodes file and
>>>>> said "aha there is shortcode"? What is purpose here?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's back up a bit: why would <span class="foo bar"></span> be added
>>>>>> to post content to begin with? What is the semantic meaning of such a
>>>>>> container?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Daniel Tara <contact at onedesigns.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Speaking a bit more generally I believe there always be this
>>>>>>> conflict between content generation and content presentation. Content
>>>>>>> generation is plugin territory but if plugins also add their own styling
>>>>>>> what are the chances that styling fits a random theme. I say not styled
>>>>>>> content is better than ugly styled content. I think we should allow more
>>>>>>> middle ground here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2013, at 4:10 PM, Ünsal Korkmaz wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for review but i mean tinymce does not adding shortcode,
>>>>>>> it adds css code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/shortcodes.php
>>>>>>> Those shortcodes are wordpress's default shortcodes. audio, gallery,
>>>>>>> video.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hmm, actually, there *are* shortcodes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/shortcodes.php
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And this is definitely Plugin territory:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/remove-comments-absolute.php
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And a good deal of this is Plugin territory:
>>>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/fix.php
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And this is also probably Plugin territory (though a bit of a gray
>>>>>>>> area):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/custom-sharing-buttons.php
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/custom-facebook-comments.php
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But, for the TinyMCE buttons: my initial reaction would be to say
>>>>>>>> that they also are probably Plugin territory. What do the buttons do? What
>>>>>>>> do they add to the post content? Wrap selected content in <span class="foo
>>>>>>>> bar"></span> tags? Sure, that degrades more gracefully than un-parsed
>>>>>>>> shortcodes, but it would still result in a bunch of unused markup scattered
>>>>>>>> throughout the user's posts after switching Themes. *Thus, I would
>>>>>>>> say that the TinyMCE buttons are also Plugin territory*. I would
>>>>>>>> recommend defining the *styles* for the CSS classes added via the TinyMCE
>>>>>>>> buttons, but make the underlying TinyMCE button functionality itself a
>>>>>>>> Plugin.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <
>>>>>>>> unsalkorkmaz at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> My theme:
>>>>>>>>> http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11437
>>>>>>>>> Theme is adding custom tinymce button that adds css code for
>>>>>>>>> design elements. There is no shortcode or something.. just css code.
>>>>>>>>> Its allowed in themes right?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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