[theme-reviewers] Tinymce button that only adds css codes.. still plugin territory?

Sun Mar 3 15:21:05 UTC 2013

> I believe tinymce button thats just adding span,div with classes can be
theme territory.

Let's finish that discussion here, before moving to the ticket.

What is the *purpose* of the span/div wrappers with CSS classes?

On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <unsalkorkmaz at gmail.com>wrote:

> Released 1.1.1 version:
>
> http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11449
> Removed plugin territory features except tinymce button. I believe tinymce
> button thats just adding span,div with classes can be theme territory.
> Thanks everyone for your time
>
> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:
>
>> If there is no semantic value, then why would the user want to wrap
>> content in <span class="foo bar"></span>? There is obviously some *use* or
>> *purpose* for the user explicitly wrapping content in a container with
>> defined CSS selectors. The *nature* of that intended purpose helps to
>> clarify whether it is Theme territory or Plugin territory.
>>
>> Sometimes questions don't have a single, black-and-white answer, but
>> instead depend on context. (For example: post custom meta boxes are not
>> inherently Theme or Plugin territory; that determination depends on the
>> intended use of the defined custom post meta data handled by those meta
>> boxes.) So, by asking, "what is the semantic meaning of the code added by
>> the TinyMCE buttons?" I'm trying to drive to the intended purpose, to
>> ensure that we're all discussing the question in the correct context.
>>
>> I mentioned shortcodes among a list of other things in the Theme that are
>> Plugin territory. Yes, it is a separate issue from the question of TinyMCE
>> buttons, but in your OP, you said, "there are no shortcodes, only added
>> TinyMCE buttons". I was merely pointing out that "there are no shortcodes"
>> is untrue, because the Theme does define shortcodes (along with many other
>> things that are Plugin territory).
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <unsalkorkmaz at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Let's back up a bit: why would <span class="foo bar"></span> be added to
>>>> post content to begin with? What is the semantic meaning of such a
>>>> container?
>>>
>>>
>>> Seriously?
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Span_and_div
>>> In HTML <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML>, the *span* and *div*
>>> elements <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_element> are used for
>>> generic organizational or stylistic applications, typically when extant
>>> meaningful elements have exhausted their purpose.
>>> *span* and *div* is not semantic.. its for design. Colors, boxes, icons
>>> are not semantic.. Those are design that shows content better.
>>>
>>> Are we talking about core-defined shortcodes or not? If they're defined
>>>> in core, why do they need to be defined in the Theme?
>>>
>>>
>>>  Original question:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> My theme:
>>>> http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11437
>>>> Theme is adding custom tinymce button that adds css code for design
>>>> elements. There is no shortcode or something.. just css code.
>>>> Its allowed in themes right?
>>>
>>>
>>> There is a tinymce button added with theme. That button adds css code
>>> when you click it. ITs not adding shortcode and esspecially i am saying its
>>> not adding any shortcode. I NEVER said theme does not support any
>>> shortcode. Theme is supporting 3 shortcode thats wordpress default
>>> shortcodes: audio, video, gallery. Why did you link shortcodes file and
>>> said "aha there is shortcode"? What is purpose here?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let's back up a bit: why would <span class="foo bar"></span> be added
>>>> to post content to begin with? What is the semantic meaning of such a
>>>> container?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Daniel Tara <contact at onedesigns.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Speaking a bit more generally I believe there always be this conflict
>>>>> between content generation and content presentation. Content generation is
>>>>> plugin territory but if plugins also add their own styling what are the
>>>>> chances that styling fits a random theme. I say not styled content is
>>>>> better than ugly styled content. I think we should allow more middle ground
>>>>> here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 3, 2013, at 4:10 PM, Ünsal Korkmaz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for review but i mean tinymce does not adding shortcode, it
>>>>> adds css code.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/shortcodes.php
>>>>> Those shortcodes are wordpress's default shortcodes. audio, gallery,
>>>>> video.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmm, actually, there *are* shortcodes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/shortcodes.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this is definitely Plugin territory:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/remove-comments-absolute.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And a good deal of this is Plugin territory:
>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/fix.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this is also probably Plugin territory (though a bit of a gray
>>>>>> area):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/custom-sharing-buttons.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/custom-facebook-comments.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, for the TinyMCE buttons: my initial reaction would be to say
>>>>>> that they also are probably Plugin territory. What do the buttons do? What
>>>>>> do they add to the post content? Wrap selected content in <span class="foo
>>>>>> bar"></span> tags? Sure, that degrades more gracefully than un-parsed
>>>>>> shortcodes, but it would still result in a bunch of unused markup scattered
>>>>>> throughout the user's posts after switching Themes. *Thus, I would
>>>>>> say that the TinyMCE buttons are also Plugin territory*. I would
>>>>>> recommend defining the *styles* for the CSS classes added via the TinyMCE
>>>>>> buttons, but make the underlying TinyMCE button functionality itself a
>>>>>> Plugin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chip
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <unsalkorkmaz at gmail.com
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> My theme:
>>>>>>> http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11437
>>>>>>> Theme is adding custom tinymce button that adds css code for design
>>>>>>> elements. There is no shortcode or something.. just css code.
>>>>>>> Its allowed in themes right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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