[theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin territory?

Tue Jul 16 14:34:03 UTC 2013

Also I just checked the forums again, in the last 6 years there were less then a handful total and none of them were due to shortcodes or plugin content that one theme had that another didn’t, although there was one was a custom post type issue but was easily explained and the end user got it working almost immediately.  If you know of any specific ones, please speak up.

This is not an ongoing issue that makes it a necessity to be a requirement.

Your claims are false.   

From: Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) 
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:19 AM
To: Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers. 
Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin territory?

“The review queue currently stands at 102 tickets. Working to reduce that number would be a far better use of our time, than continuing to argue a fundamental principle in the guidelines.”

Adding to the overhead of the work that the theme reviewer has to do is not the answer.    I suggest adding more ‘checks’ in the plugins that are available that make it easier on the reviewer. 

And this ‘team’ doesn’t have a mission statement.   So the fundamental principle is in your head.

From: Chip Bennett 
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:16 AM
To: Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers. 
Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin territory?

No, thanks. I've gone down this rabbit hole about as far as I care to do so at this point. The presentation-vs-functionality principle is very well-established at this point. There will always be room for compromise on interpretation and implementation, but from my perspective, there is overwhelming support for the underlying presentation-vs-functionality principle. 

The review queue currently stands at 102 tickets. Working to reduce that number would be a far better use of our time, than continuing to argue a fundamental principle in the guidelines.

On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <philip at frumph.net> wrote:

  I spend a lot of time in the forums.  Quite a lot, not ESMI lot, but quite a lot.  So please don’t use that as a reference.

  Not a single forum post I have seen that discusses the difficulty of moving from one theme to another in the perspective that was too difficult for the end user.   Most often it was ‘this plugin does not work properly in this theme’.

  Please, again ... show me a ‘real issue’ that has been made on it, any at all – by any user.

  From: Chip Bennett 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:06 AM
  To: Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers. 
  Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin territory?

  Spend any amount of time in WordPress support forums - the official forums, StackExchange, wherever - and you will perhaps gain a different perspective. 

  If it weren't a real issue, then content such as the following wouldn't be nearly so popular:
  https://www.google.com/search?q=wordpress+things+to+do+when+switching+themes

  You may disagree with the extent or severity, but user experience when switching Themes is a real issue.

  On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <philip at frumph.net> wrote:

    Do you have any facts supporting the claim of end users having a difficult time when switching themes?

    Most users who switch themes often do it within the first week of having a blog, to find one they really like, in my opinion - and haven't necessarily gotten into too much with their themes to even care.

    So, yeah .. back up what you're saying with facts please.

    A link to a post of some user anywhere that has had trouble switching themes from one to another that couldn't move over data. 

    -----Original Message----- From: Dane Morgan

    Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:43 AM
    To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org 

    Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin territory?

    On 2013-07-16 00:22, Fränk Klein wrote:

      On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:54:33 -0500, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:

        Authors that offer this as an optional feature via Theme Options
        should not be allowed to include them with their Themes! Why?

        I really don't see the reason to ban this from Themes. Recommend,
        sure, let's do that, but to say no, you cannot, is just wrong :)

        Excluding this from Themes (*in case that author does not fork*
        *into a plugin*) will "break" the Theme and that user experience we
        talked about will be a terrible one. Not to mention the author.

        So in this case it's fine to do that because that's the guideline
        but it is not if the same user decides to switch the Theme and
        loses their features. Sorry I don't buy that.

    You keep saying that removing these features from a theme will result in
    a terrible user experience, but you deny that the removal that occurs
    when users switch themes will be a terrible user experience. You can't
    have it both ways.

    If the loss is traumatic, it's traumatic and we must mitigate it by
    making sure no more users are subjected to it by prohibiting the practice.

    If it is not traumatic, then good sense and best practices demands the
    separation of content and presentation and we need to nail that down.

    But I wonder why, given that this is actually *already in* the
    guidelines (
    http://make.wordpress.org/themes/guidelines/guidelines-plugin-territory/
    ) as *must not* for all of the items on your proposed list, does this
    conversation seem to take place as though this were a new proposal and
    not already the requirement?
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