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<DIV>Also I just checked the forums again, in the last 6 years there were less
then a handful total and none of them were due to shortcodes or plugin content
that one theme had that another didn’t, although there was one was a custom post
type issue but was easily explained and the end user got it working almost
immediately. If you know of any specific ones, please speak up.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This is not an ongoing issue that makes it a necessity to be a
requirement.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Your claims are false. </DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=philip@frumph.net
href="mailto:philip@frumph.net">Philip M. Hofer (Frumph)</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:19 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org
href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org">Discussion list for WordPress
theme reviewers.</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin
territory?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV>“The review queue currently stands at 102 tickets. Working to reduce that
number would be a far better use of our time, than continuing to argue a
fundamental principle in the guidelines.”</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Adding to the overhead of the work that the theme reviewer has to do is not
the answer. I suggest adding more ‘checks’ in the plugins that
are available that make it easier on the reviewer. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And this ‘team’ doesn’t have a mission statement. So the
fundamental principle is in your head.</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=chip@chipbennett.net
href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net">Chip Bennett</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:16 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org
href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org">Discussion list for WordPress
theme reviewers.</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin
territory?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr>No, thanks. I've gone down this rabbit hole about as far as I care
to do so at this point. The presentation-vs-functionality principle is very
well-established at this point. There will always be room for compromise on
interpretation and implementation, but from my perspective, there is
overwhelming support for the underlying presentation-vs-functionality principle.
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The review queue currently stands at 102 tickets. Working to reduce that
number would be a far better use of our time, than continuing to argue a
fundamental principle in the guidelines.</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Philip M. Hofer
(Frumph) <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:philip@frumph.net"
target=_blank>philip@frumph.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
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class=gmail_quote>
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<DIV>I spend a lot of time in the forums. Quite a lot, not ESMI lot, but
quite a lot. So please don’t use that as a reference.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Not a single forum post I have seen that discusses the difficulty of
moving from one theme to another in the perspective that was too difficult for
the end user. Most often it was ‘this plugin does not work
properly in this theme’.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Please, again ... show me a ‘real issue’ that has been made on it, any at
all – by any user.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=chip@chipbennett.net
href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" target=_blank>Chip Bennett</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:06 AM</DIV>
<DIV class=im>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org
href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target=_blank>Discussion
list for WordPress theme reviewers.</A> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin
territory?</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr>Spend any amount of time in WordPress support forums - the
official forums, StackExchange, wherever - and you will perhaps gain a
different perspective.
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If it weren't a real issue, then content such as the following wouldn't
be nearly so popular:</DIV>
<DIV><A
href="https://www.google.com/search?q=wordpress+things+to+do+when+switching+themes"
target=_blank>https://www.google.com/search?q=wordpress+things+to+do+when+switching+themes</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You may disagree with the extent or severity, but user experience when
switching Themes is a real issue.</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Philip M. Hofer
(Frumph) <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:philip@frumph.net"
target=_blank>philip@frumph.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Do you have any facts supporting the claim of end users
having a difficult time when switching themes?<BR><BR>Most users who switch
themes often do it within the first week of having a blog, to find one they
really like, in my opinion - and haven't necessarily gotten into too much
with their themes to even care.<BR><BR>So, yeah .. back up what you're
saying with facts please.<BR><BR>A link to a post of some user anywhere that
has had trouble switching themes from one to another that couldn't move over
data.
<DIV><BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message----- From: Dane
Morgan<BR></DIV>Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:43 AM<BR>To: <A
href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org"
target=_blank>theme-reviewers@lists.<U></U>wordpress.org</A>
<DIV><BR>Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin
territory?<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 2013-07-16 00:22, Fränk Klein wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:54:33 -0500, Emil Uzelac <<A
href="mailto:emil@uzelac.me" target=_blank>emil@uzelac.me</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Authors that offer this as an optional feature via
Theme Options<BR>should not be allowed to include them with their
Themes! Why?<BR><BR>I really don't see the reason to ban this from
Themes. Recommend,<BR>sure, let's do that, but to say no, you cannot, is
just wrong :)<BR><BR>Excluding this from Themes (*in case that author
does not fork*<BR>*into a plugin*) will "break" the Theme and that user
experience we<BR>talked about will be a terrible one. Not to mention the
author.<BR><BR>So in this case it's fine to do that because that's the
guideline<BR>but it is not if the same user decides to switch the Theme
and<BR>loses their features. Sorry I don't buy
that.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>You keep saying that removing these
features from a theme will result in<BR>a terrible user experience, but you
deny that the removal that occurs<BR>when users switch themes will be a
terrible user experience. You can't<BR>have it both ways.<BR><BR>If the loss
is traumatic, it's traumatic and we must mitigate it by<BR>making sure no
more users are subjected to it by prohibiting the practice.<BR><BR>If it is
not traumatic, then good sense and best practices demands the<BR>separation
of content and presentation and we need to nail that down.<BR><BR>But I
wonder why, given that this is actually *already in* the<BR>guidelines
(<BR><A
href="http://make.wordpress.org/themes/guidelines/guidelines-plugin-territory/"
target=_blank>http://make.wordpress.org/<U></U>themes/guidelines/guidelines-<U></U>plugin-territory/</A><BR>)
as *must not* for all of the items on your proposed list, does
this<BR>conversation seem to take place as though this were a new proposal
and<BR>not already the
requirement?<BR>______________________________<U></U>_________________<BR>theme-reviewers
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org"
target=_blank>theme-reviewers@lists.<U></U>wordpress.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers"
target=_blank>http://lists.wordpress.org/<U></U>mailman/listinfo/theme-<U></U>reviewers</A>
<BR>______________________________<U></U>_________________<BR>theme-reviewers
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org"
target=_blank>theme-reviewers@lists.<U></U>wordpress.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers"
target=_blank>http://lists.wordpress.org/<U></U>mailman/listinfo/theme-<U></U>reviewers</A><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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