[theme-reviewers] Tags and description.

Chip Bennett chip at chipbennett.net
Fri Aug 23 18:23:59 UTC 2013 

It's not about promotion. Consider all of the following:

plugin-support-woocommerce
plugin-support-wpecommerce
plugin-support-shopp
plugin-support-jigoshop
plugin-support-cart66
plugin-support-easy-digital-downloads

A single "ecommerce" tag may "cover" all the bases, but I contend that it
would be mostly useless. Themes can't integrate support for "ecommerce"
Plugins generally; rather, they must integrate such support explicitly for
each individual e-commerce Plugin. And users generally don't look for a
Theme that supports e-commerce generally; rather, they look for Themes that
integrate support for a specific e-commerce Plugin.

So, an "ecommerce" tag might be good for WPORG Theme directory marketing
("The official directory hosts 300 e-commerce Themes!"), but it wouldn't be
helpful for getting specific Themes with support for specific e-commerce
Plugins into the hands of users.


On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:

> That's simple. If you have WooCommerce only, we're promoting one plugin.
> Adding e-commerce will cover all e-commerce plugins<http://wordpress.org/plugins/tags/ecommerce>
> .
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>
>> Can I ask why declaring support for WooCommerce (or any other commercial
>> Plugin, such as any other commercial e-commerce Plugin, or Gravity Forms,
>> or whatever) would not be acceptable? I think if the following are true,
>> that should be sufficient:
>>
>> 1) The Plugin for which support is declared is GPL/compatible
>> 2) Plugin support is declared in an approved/standardized manner, such as
>> *add_theme_support( 'plugin-name' )*
>> 3) The Plugin keyword conforms to an approved convention, such as "*
>> plugin-support-{plugin}*" (note: "bbpress" and "buddypress" could be
>> converted to "plugin-support-bbpress" and "plugin-support-buddypress")
>>
>> I see this as a win-win for developers and for end users. Simply using a
>> "e-commerce" tag probably isn't all that helpful, because more than likely,
>> users will already have an e-commerce Plugin solution in mind, and will be
>> looking for Themes that integrate support for their chosen Plugin,
>> explicitly.
>>
>> The biggest issue here is scope/implementation on WPORG's end. But
>> perhaps some of this could be automated, rather than all hard-coded in the
>> WPORG franken-code.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>
>>> @Ulrich e-commerce is fine, WooCommerce is not. None of us here have
>>> final saying in any of this and all can speak there minds. All I said
>>> was from
>>> WPORG point of view, not mine :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:16 AM, Ulrich Pogson <grapplerulrich at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> @Emil Who makes the final decision? So is this discussion has no point
>>>> because we cannot influence anything?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 23 August 2013 09:00, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>> On Aug 23, 2013 1:45 AM, "Srikanth Koneru" <tskk79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> +1 to Emil, just don't put "fluid grid system" in the definition of
>>>>>> responsive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Absolute no to WooCommerce or any other commercial site. This is the
>>>>>>> policy that was laid before us. I for one will keep that. Responsive and
>>>>>>> Accessibility are in, let us pass that. No surveys, we will not carry this
>>>>>>> more than we already did. I dislike long discussion over nothing. Community
>>>>>>> was involved, provided with the chance to talk, that will wrap this up. And
>>>>>>> note that it is not up to us, we don't hold the final word B-)
>>>>>>>  On Aug 23, 2013 1:23 AM, "myazalea" <myazalea at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Big no to a woocommerce tag since its commercial and would be
>>>>>>>> favoring it over other plugins.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yes to some sort of ecommerce or shop tag
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Skickat från min Samsung Mobil
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------- Originalmeddelande --------
>>>>>>>> Från: Ulrich Pogson <grapplerulrich at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Datum: 23-08-2013 8:17 (GMT+01:00)
>>>>>>>> Till: "Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers." <
>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>>>>>>>> Rubrik: Re: [theme-reviewers] Tags and description.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am more for just "Responsive" because if I had to get examples
>>>>>>>> this is what comes to mind first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Responsive: TwentyTwelve
>>>>>>>> Mobile-Optimized: Jetpack Mobile Theme
>>>>>>>> Mobile: WPTouch <http://wordpress.org/plugins/wptouch/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The solutions for "Mobile-Optimized" and "Mobile" are plugins.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As we have "buddypress" tag there should be a place "bbpress" and
>>>>>>>> even "woocommerce" also.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think a survey would not be bad so that we can track the
>>>>>>>> responses properly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have created something. Would love some feedback.
>>>>>>>> http://grapplerulrich.polldaddy.com/s/theme-tag-servey
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 23 August 2013 06:37, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Understood, I wasn't aware. And yes for above mobile.
>>>>>>>>> Accessibility is on the list too. I think.
>>>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 2013 11:35 PM, "Josh Pollock" <jpollock412 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> @justin agreed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We ned to think about more than just mobile/responsive/etc tags.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What about tags based one end purpose, how do we feel about
>>>>>>>>>> reviewing those? For instance theme forest has these top level categories
>>>>>>>>>> for their WordPress themes: Blog/ magazine, creative, corporate, retail,
>>>>>>>>>> technology, nonprofit, entertainment, miscellaneous, mobile, buddypress,
>>>>>>>>>> and ecommerce. Could we do tags like that? What about a CMS tag?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> @emil - There is no guarantee that there will be new tags. This
>>>>>>>>>> process is very preliminary. But if a useful set of tags can be generated
>>>>>>>>>> by the THX38 project, then a new search filtering system based on those
>>>>>>>>>> tags will have a good shot at being implemented.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm trying to take some initiative to bring the theme review
>>>>>>>>>> team's thoughts on tags back to the THX38 team because I'm the only theme
>>>>>>>>>> reviewer that was present for the first THX38 meeting and a lot of ideas
>>>>>>>>>> for new tags were thrown around, which made me worry about how we were
>>>>>>>>>> going to review them. Basically, I'd rather say, "this is what the theme
>>>>>>>>>> review team discussion resulted in", then say, "as one of the theme
>>>>>>>>>> reviewers this is what I think."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Justin Tadlock <
>>>>>>>>>> justin at justintadlock.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  I agree with Chip that one tag would be better for end users.
>>>>>>>>>>> However, I also think we need to propose multiple tags to whoever is in
>>>>>>>>>>> charge of this.  So, having a list of potential tags with their definitions
>>>>>>>>>>> is what we should put together.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On that note, I've never had a user ask for an "adaptive"
>>>>>>>>>>> theme.  It's mostly "responsive."  But, "mobile-ready" and "mobile-first"
>>>>>>>>>>> are terms that are also thrown around a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I dislike the phrase "fluid grid system" when referring to
>>>>>>>>>>> responsive design.  Maybe something along the lines of "a fluid layout that
>>>>>>>>>>> responds to screen size."  Anyway, I'm just nit-picking words here.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/22/2013 10:52 PM, Josh Pollock wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> @chip- I think there is a good chance of a lot of new tags being
>>>>>>>>>>> added. Everyone agrees we need to be able to filter search results based on
>>>>>>>>>>> tags and the current set of tags doesn't do it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  What does it hurt to create a list of tag and definitions that
>>>>>>>>>>> the theme review team thinks would be useful and we could review fairly?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  I think it would be better if we brainstormed a list without
>>>>>>>>>>> any premptive doomsaying, so I can take it back to the THX38 meeting as the
>>>>>>>>>>> theme review teams ideas on new tags, instead of just bringing own
>>>>>>>>>>> ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 22, 2013, Chip Bennett wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My main problem with that is that it's still adding three tags
>>>>>>>>>>>> where currently none exist. I just don't see that flying with the
>>>>>>>>>>>> powers-that-be. I think our best bet of getting *any* tags added is to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>> to a single tag.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  IMHO, the tag list could probably stand for a bit of an
>>>>>>>>>>>> overhaul - but that would be a bigger discussion than this one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Josh Pollock <
>>>>>>>>>>>> jpollock412 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> How about this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  Responsive: "A theme with a layout that employs a fluid grid
>>>>>>>>>>>> system that changes in response to screen size."
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile-Optimized: "A theme that adjusts its layout, reduces the
>>>>>>>>>>>> sizes of its media elements and otherwise improves the page load time and
>>>>>>>>>>>> user experience for mobile."
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: "A Theme that is designed to be used only on mobile
>>>>>>>>>>>> devices."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  Notice I left adaptive off of the list, and I'm open to
>>>>>>>>>>>> leaving mobile off too if its not needed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> mobile-responsive and that includes both?
>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 2013 5:46 PM, "Emil Uzelac" <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever is better. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 5:44 PM, "Chip Bennett" <chip at chipbennett.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember: those tags are, primarily, for *users* rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>> for developers. To the end user: what's the tangible difference between
>>>>>>>>>>>> "responsive" and "adaptive"? In this case, "end user" could be both the
>>>>>>>>>>>> site owner (the one who chooses and installs the Theme) or the site visitor
>>>>>>>>>>>> (who would view the website via devices with various screen sizes).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  Do a developer, I agree 100% that the two terms have
>>>>>>>>>>>> tangible, meaningful differences.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  I'm just struggling to see how a user would see any
>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever. In both cases, the Theme is designed to work on
>>>>>>>>>>>> devices with variously small screen sizes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Josh Pollock <
>>>>>>>>>>>> jpollock412 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree and disagree with Chip. I agree we need to find the
>>>>>>>>>>>> definition that is most useful to end users and two tags with the same
>>>>>>>>>>>> definition is probably confusing. The problem is some end users are more
>>>>>>>>>>>> sophisticated than others. Some know what responsive means, some don't.
>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, we shouldn't equate the two, because they are different. GIve me
>>>>>>>>>>>> a little time and I will propose some new definitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  @Ulrich We can't just add tags to the guidelines. They need
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be supported by core. As part of the THX38 project this will most likely
>>>>>>>>>>>> happening. I'm hoping to go to the next THX38 meeting with a list of tags
>>>>>>>>>>>> that we, as theme reviewers, want added and feel like we can review
>>>>>>>>>>>> properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Chip Bennett <
>>>>>>>>>>>> chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm one of those people who doesn't know the difference between
>>>>>>>>>>>> "responsive" and "adaptive". Well, until just now, because I
>>>>>>>>>>>> googled it<http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/web-designer/what-is-the-difference-between-responsive-vs-adaptive-web-design/>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  The TL;DR of that article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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