[theme-reviewers] Tags and description.

Emil Uzelac emil at uzelac.me
Fri Aug 23 18:31:13 UTC 2013 

It makes more sense this way.


On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:

> It's not about promotion. Consider all of the following:
>
> plugin-support-woocommerce
> plugin-support-wpecommerce
> plugin-support-shopp
> plugin-support-jigoshop
> plugin-support-cart66
> plugin-support-easy-digital-downloads
>
> A single "ecommerce" tag may "cover" all the bases, but I contend that it
> would be mostly useless. Themes can't integrate support for "ecommerce"
> Plugins generally; rather, they must integrate such support explicitly for
> each individual e-commerce Plugin. And users generally don't look for a
> Theme that supports e-commerce generally; rather, they look for Themes that
> integrate support for a specific e-commerce Plugin.
>
> So, an "ecommerce" tag might be good for WPORG Theme directory marketing
> ("The official directory hosts 300 e-commerce Themes!"), but it wouldn't be
> helpful for getting specific Themes with support for specific e-commerce
> Plugins into the hands of users.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>
>> That's simple. If you have WooCommerce only, we're promoting one plugin.
>> Adding e-commerce will cover all e-commerce plugins<http://wordpress.org/plugins/tags/ecommerce>
>> .
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Can I ask why declaring support for WooCommerce (or any other commercial
>>> Plugin, such as any other commercial e-commerce Plugin, or Gravity Forms,
>>> or whatever) would not be acceptable? I think if the following are true,
>>> that should be sufficient:
>>>
>>> 1) The Plugin for which support is declared is GPL/compatible
>>> 2) Plugin support is declared in an approved/standardized manner, such
>>> as *add_theme_support( 'plugin-name' )*
>>> 3) The Plugin keyword conforms to an approved convention, such as "*
>>> plugin-support-{plugin}*" (note: "bbpress" and "buddypress" could be
>>> converted to "plugin-support-bbpress" and "plugin-support-buddypress")
>>>
>>> I see this as a win-win for developers and for end users. Simply using a
>>> "e-commerce" tag probably isn't all that helpful, because more than likely,
>>> users will already have an e-commerce Plugin solution in mind, and will be
>>> looking for Themes that integrate support for their chosen Plugin,
>>> explicitly.
>>>
>>> The biggest issue here is scope/implementation on WPORG's end. But
>>> perhaps some of this could be automated, rather than all hard-coded in the
>>> WPORG franken-code.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>
>>>> @Ulrich e-commerce is fine, WooCommerce is not. None of us here have
>>>> final saying in any of this and all can speak there minds. All I said
>>>> was from
>>>> WPORG point of view, not mine :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:16 AM, Ulrich Pogson <
>>>> grapplerulrich at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> @Emil Who makes the final decision? So is this discussion has no point
>>>>> because we cannot influence anything?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 23 August 2013 09:00, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>> On Aug 23, 2013 1:45 AM, "Srikanth Koneru" <tskk79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +1 to Emil, just don't put "fluid grid system" in the definition of
>>>>>>> responsive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Absolute no to WooCommerce or any other commercial site. This is
>>>>>>>> the policy that was laid before us. I for one will keep that. Responsive
>>>>>>>> and Accessibility are in, let us pass that. No surveys, we will not carry
>>>>>>>> this more than we already did. I dislike long discussion over nothing.
>>>>>>>> Community was involved, provided with the chance to talk, that will wrap
>>>>>>>> this up. And note that it is not up to us, we don't hold the final word B-)
>>>>>>>>  On Aug 23, 2013 1:23 AM, "myazalea" <myazalea at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Big no to a woocommerce tag since its commercial and would be
>>>>>>>>> favoring it over other plugins.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> yes to some sort of ecommerce or shop tag
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Skickat från min Samsung Mobil
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -------- Originalmeddelande --------
>>>>>>>>> Från: Ulrich Pogson <grapplerulrich at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> Datum: 23-08-2013 8:17 (GMT+01:00)
>>>>>>>>> Till: "Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers." <
>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>>>>>>>>> Rubrik: Re: [theme-reviewers] Tags and description.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am more for just "Responsive" because if I had to get examples
>>>>>>>>> this is what comes to mind first.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Responsive: TwentyTwelve
>>>>>>>>> Mobile-Optimized: Jetpack Mobile Theme
>>>>>>>>> Mobile: WPTouch <http://wordpress.org/plugins/wptouch/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The solutions for "Mobile-Optimized" and "Mobile" are plugins.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As we have "buddypress" tag there should be a place "bbpress" and
>>>>>>>>> even "woocommerce" also.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think a survey would not be bad so that we can track the
>>>>>>>>> responses properly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have created something. Would love some feedback.
>>>>>>>>> http://grapplerulrich.polldaddy.com/s/theme-tag-servey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 23 August 2013 06:37, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Understood, I wasn't aware. And yes for above mobile.
>>>>>>>>>> Accessibility is on the list too. I think.
>>>>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 2013 11:35 PM, "Josh Pollock" <jpollock412 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> @justin agreed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We ned to think about more than just mobile/responsive/etc tags.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What about tags based one end purpose, how do we feel about
>>>>>>>>>>> reviewing those? For instance theme forest has these top level categories
>>>>>>>>>>> for their WordPress themes: Blog/ magazine, creative, corporate, retail,
>>>>>>>>>>> technology, nonprofit, entertainment, miscellaneous, mobile, buddypress,
>>>>>>>>>>> and ecommerce. Could we do tags like that? What about a CMS tag?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> @emil - There is no guarantee that there will be new tags. This
>>>>>>>>>>> process is very preliminary. But if a useful set of tags can be generated
>>>>>>>>>>> by the THX38 project, then a new search filtering system based on those
>>>>>>>>>>> tags will have a good shot at being implemented.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm trying to take some initiative to bring the theme review
>>>>>>>>>>> team's thoughts on tags back to the THX38 team because I'm the only theme
>>>>>>>>>>> reviewer that was present for the first THX38 meeting and a lot of ideas
>>>>>>>>>>> for new tags were thrown around, which made me worry about how we were
>>>>>>>>>>> going to review them. Basically, I'd rather say, "this is what the theme
>>>>>>>>>>> review team discussion resulted in", then say, "as one of the theme
>>>>>>>>>>> reviewers this is what I think."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Justin Tadlock <
>>>>>>>>>>> justin at justintadlock.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  I agree with Chip that one tag would be better for end users.
>>>>>>>>>>>> However, I also think we need to propose multiple tags to whoever is in
>>>>>>>>>>>> charge of this.  So, having a list of potential tags with their definitions
>>>>>>>>>>>> is what we should put together.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On that note, I've never had a user ask for an "adaptive"
>>>>>>>>>>>> theme.  It's mostly "responsive."  But, "mobile-ready" and "mobile-first"
>>>>>>>>>>>> are terms that are also thrown around a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I dislike the phrase "fluid grid system" when referring
>>>>>>>>>>>> to responsive design.  Maybe something along the lines of "a fluid layout
>>>>>>>>>>>> that responds to screen size."  Anyway, I'm just nit-picking words here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/22/2013 10:52 PM, Josh Pollock wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> @chip- I think there is a good chance of a lot of new tags
>>>>>>>>>>>> being added. Everyone agrees we need to be able to filter search results
>>>>>>>>>>>> based on tags and the current set of tags doesn't do it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  What does it hurt to create a list of tag and definitions
>>>>>>>>>>>> that the theme review team thinks would be useful and we could review
>>>>>>>>>>>> fairly?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>  I think it would be better if we brainstormed a list without
>>>>>>>>>>>> any premptive doomsaying, so I can take it back to the THX38 meeting as the
>>>>>>>>>>>> theme review teams ideas on new tags, instead of just bringing own
>>>>>>>>>>>> ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 22, 2013, Chip Bennett wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My main problem with that is that it's still adding three tags
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where currently none exist. I just don't see that flying with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> powers-that-be. I think our best bet of getting *any* tags added is to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to a single tag.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  IMHO, the tag list could probably stand for a bit of an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> overhaul - but that would be a bigger discussion than this one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Josh Pollock <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jpollock412 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How about this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Responsive: "A theme with a layout that employs a fluid grid
>>>>>>>>>>>>> system that changes in response to screen size."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile-Optimized: "A theme that adjusts its layout, reduces
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sizes of its media elements and otherwise improves the page load time
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and user experience for mobile."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: "A Theme that is designed to be used only on mobile
>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Notice I left adaptive off of the list, and I'm open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaving mobile off too if its not needed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mobile-responsive and that includes both?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 2013 5:46 PM, "Emil Uzelac" <emil at uzelac.me>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever is better. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 5:44 PM, "Chip Bennett" <chip at chipbennett.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember: those tags are, primarily, for *users* rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for developers. To the end user: what's the tangible difference between
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "responsive" and "adaptive"? In this case, "end user" could be both the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> site owner (the one who chooses and installs the Theme) or the site visitor
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who would view the website via devices with various screen sizes).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Do a developer, I agree 100% that the two terms have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tangible, meaningful differences.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I'm just struggling to see how a user would see any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever. In both cases, the Theme is designed to work on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices with variously small screen sizes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Josh Pollock <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jpollock412 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree and disagree with Chip. I agree we need to find the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition that is most useful to end users and two tags with the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition is probably confusing. The problem is some end users are more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sophisticated than others. Some know what responsive means, some don't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, we shouldn't equate the two, because they are different. GIve me
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a little time and I will propose some new definitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  @Ulrich We can't just add tags to the guidelines. They need
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be supported by core. As part of the THX38 project this will most likely
>>>>>>>>>>>>> happening. I'm hoping to go to the next THX38 meeting with a list of tags
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we, as theme reviewers, want added and feel like we can review
>>>>>>>>>>>>> properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Chip Bennett <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm one of those people who doesn't know the difference
>>>>>>>>>>>>> between "responsive" and "adaptive". Well, until just now,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I googled it<http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/web-designer/what-is-the-difference-between-responsive-vs-adaptive-web-design/>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  The TL;DR of that article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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