[theme-reviewers] tracking code in themes
Justin Tadlock
justin at justintadlock.com
Fri Mar 9 21:41:22 UTC 2012
Trent,
You're missing the point completely. Whether themes on the repository
are allowed to do this is a matter or WordPress.org's policy. It's not
about right or wrong. It doesn't matter if the data is public or
private. It's all irrelevant. You simply cannot do it. Arguing on the
theme reviewers mailing list isn't going to change this.
To quote Otto:
"This sort of thing will not be allowed in the repository if the code is
enabled-by-default. It must be explicitly enabled by the user, and there
must be text nearby this option that explains what data is sent and
where it is sent to."
On 3/9/2012 3:18 PM, Trent Lapinski wrote:
> Chip,
>
> What you do not seem to understand is that "informed consent" is not a
> reasonable or logical argument when collecting PUBLICLY available data.
>
> Public information is just that: public information. Informed consent
> is not require to acquire public information.
>
> Again, this is NOT user data, and does not harm the USER or violate
> the rights of the USER in any way. It is no different than someone
> visiting a website and having Google Analytics collect publicly
> available analytical data.
>
> WordPress.org <http://WordPress.org> itself, as well as WordPress.com
> <http://WordPress.com> are in direct violation of this free-software
> principle by tracking downloads, as is the WordPress API.
>
> Did I give WordPress informed consent to ping me to tell me there's a
> new update available? Nope.
>
> Did I give conformed consent when I downloaded WordPress itself from
> .org and WordPress tracked my download number? Nope.
>
> Did I give conformed consent when I simply visited WordPress.org
> <http://WordPress.org> and they found out what city I live in, what my
> screen resolution is, who my ISP is, and what kind of computer I'm
> using? Nope.
>
> Again, "informed consent" of public information is something
> WordPress.org <http://WordPress.org> already violates consistently
> with its own download counts, and analytics tools, and WordPress.com
> <http://WordPress.com> is also in violation of this as well:
> http://en.wordpress.com/stats/
>
> What I am arguing is WordPress is not in the wrong for doing any of
> this, and neither am I or PressTrends. This is how the internet works,
> and has always worked.
>
> Again, these are features that WordPress.org <http://WordPress.org> is
> considering implementing themselves, so please don't tell me this is
> some philosophical slippery slope, this is no different than tracking
> page views on a website. The only question here is why we have to wait
> for WordPress.org <http://WordPress.org> to do this when the
> technology exists for us to do this ourselves?
>
> The policy is illogical, irrational, and should be changed. It is
> through debates such as what we're having right now that we push
> things forward, and cut through stigma and irrational beliefs. I am
> not arguing with you because this is anything personal, I'm arguing
> because this "policy" is outdated, hypocritical, and does not make sense.
>
> --Trent Lapinski
> =============
> CEO of CyberChimps LLC
> trent at cyberchimps.com <mailto:trent at cyberchimps.com>
> Mobile (714) 904-4280
> Twitter @trentlapinski
> http://CyberChimps.com
>
> On Mar 9, 2012, at 12:01 PM, Chip Bennett wrote:
>
>> The very act of pinging a third party upon activation of a Theme -
>> and doing so without the informed consent of the end user - is a
>> violation of the free-software principle that users have the right to
>> use software "/without being required to communicate about it with
>> the developer or any other specific entity/".
>>
>> The rest of your arguments still miss the fundamental point that the
>> issue here is not the usefulness/benefit of the service, but rather
>> that the *informed consent of the end user* is paramount, and is
>> required, both as a matter of adherence to free software philosophy
>> and also as a matter of wordpress.org <http://wordpress.org/> policy.
>>
>> Chip
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Trent Lapinski <trent at cyberchimps.com
>> <mailto:trent at cyberchimps.com>> wrote:
>>
>> For the record, PressTrends is not a "tracker" it doesn't track
>> users WordPress usage, or personal information.
>>
>> It simply tells you when someone activates a theme and reports
>> back the version number of the activation and what version of
>> WordPress they are using. That's the meat of it. It does a few
>> other minor things, but the users aren't be "tracked", and we
>> aren't getting live data from the users or any personal information.
>>
>> Furthermore, this information is publicly available to begin
>> with. By viewing the resources / source of any WordPress install
>> you can see the stylesheet which contains the version number of
>> the theme. Which means this information is publicly available on
>> all WordPress websites running any WordPress theme.
>>
>> Is it wrong to aggregate such information? I do not believe so,
>> and even Otto has stated this is something Automattic has been
>> looking to replicate for WordPress.org <http://WordPress.org/>
>> themselves, so the "ethical" argument for PressTrends is entirely
>> invalid.
>>
>> If WordPress.org <http://WordPress.org/> offered these same
>> features you would all think its the greatest thing since sliced
>> bread, and no one would be raising privacy concerns because there
>> is no private information being made available.
>>
>> No one is having their privacy violated, PressTrends simply
>> aggregates useful publicly avaliable analytic data. That's it.
>>
>>
>> <Screen Shot 2012-03-09 at 11.23.32 AM.png>
>>
>> --Trent Lapinski
>> =============
>> CEO of CyberChimps LLC
>> trent at cyberchimps.com <mailto:trent at cyberchimps.com>
>> Mobile (714) 904-4280 <tel:%28714%29%20904-4280>
>> Twitter @trentlapinski
>> http://CyberChimps.com <http://CyberChimps.com/>
>>
>> On Mar 8, 2012, at 6:35 PM, Emil Uzelac wrote:
>>
>>> oh and as far as checking if the Theme is on warez or not is
>>> completely useless, don't even bother, anyone that sells them
>>> commercially will tell you not to waste your time, you report
>>> one bad link, 5 more will appear in few hours, than you report
>>> that 5, 20 more will come up shortly after that...this is the
>>> war we can't win, at least not for right now.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at themeid.com
>>> <mailto:emil at themeid.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Neither one was good to be honest with you. GA tracks more
>>> than just how the Theme is being used and that isn't right.
>>> For Adobe, Sure if you let them, I personally don't allow
>>> anything to go out, not even simple report back to them when
>>> something crashes. We all like more details, better
>>> statistics for greater improvement, that's why people
>>> invented surveys, polls etc... Most of the time this is
>>> covered in support forum, if they like your work, they will
>>> tell you a) if something goes wrong b) if there's something
>>> that they don't like and just another way of communicating
>>> with users or customers if we're talking about commercial
>>> Themes.
>>>
>>> Emil
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Daniel Fenn
>>> <danielx386 at gmail.com <mailto:danielx386 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> So how is one suppose to check of see if it was
>>> downloaded from a werz
>>> site? Adobe does this all the time. Or was it GA that
>>> pissed then off?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Emil Uzelac
>>> <emil at themeid.com <mailto:emil at themeid.com>> wrote:
>>> > Back in late 2009 I contracted for commercial Theme
>>> site where they had two
>>> > forms of tracking, one was via Google Analytics and
>>> second one hidden to
>>> > check if the Theme was purchased or downloaded from ""
>>> sites. In matter of
>>> > months they went from "all star" to "where are the
>>> customers" type of thing.
>>> > Long story short users don't like to be tracked one
>>> way or another and
>>> > honestly I don't blame them at all. Permission or not
>>> "touching things that
>>> > should not be touched" are never good idea.
>>> >
>>> > If one wants to track and get the general ideas where
>>> the Themes go, simply
>>> > use your very own GA. There are many things you can do
>>> with Analytics beyond
>>> > how many visitors one have on monthly basis. Not 100%
>>> accurate, but it does
>>> > get close.
>>> >
>>> > This is from my marketing perspective. Privacy is
>>> issue everywhere nowadays
>>> > and once this leaks to the public, your sales will go
>>> down to toilet, please
>>> > believe me on this.
>>> >
>>> > Imagine this title on a popular WP News sites "Example
>>> Theme Site Now Tracks
>>> > User's Behavior". warez
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Emil
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Bruce Wampler
>>> <weavertheme at gmail.com <mailto:weavertheme at gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> As the author of a popular WordPress theme, I would
>>> like to add my strong
>>> >> agreement with the opt-in only policy for trackers
>>> such as PressTrends.
>>> >>
>>> >> I find Trent Lapinski's arguments for the
>>> harmlessness of opt-out tracking
>>> >> self-serving and disingenuous. Anyone with the least
>>> bit of understanding of
>>> >> the difference between opt-in and opt-out, and how
>>> that affects user
>>> >> privacy, would never argue for allowing any kind of
>>> automatic or opt-out
>>> >> tracking of any kind in any repository based
>>> WordPress theme. It is simply
>>> >> the wrong thing to do.
>>> >>
>>> >> Maybe PressTrends isn't any different in concept or
>>> privacy issues than
>>> >> Google's tracking code, or even WP stats, but both of
>>> those are opt-in -
>>> >> they don't happen unless the web admin actively adds
>>> them.
>>> >>
>>> >> Personally, I believe any sort of tracking should
>>> require permission from
>>> >> the visitor to the site - but that is a much larger
>>> battle.
>>> >>
>>> >> Bruce Wampler
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>> >> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>> <mailto:theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>>> >>
>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > theme-reviewers mailing list
>>> > theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>> <mailto:theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>>> >
>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>> <mailto:theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>> <mailto:theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>> <mailto:theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>> <mailto:theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> theme-reviewers mailing list
> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.wordpress.org/pipermail/theme-reviewers/attachments/20120309/57ef4168/attachment-0001.htm>
More information about the theme-reviewers
mailing list