[theme-reviewers] Help on theme review - Did I waste my time?
Philip M. Hofer (Frumph)
philip at frumph.net
Sun May 29 20:48:54 UTC 2011
look at the trac ticket in question,
"Even though there are a few changes to be made I cannot approve this theme because of the implementation of custom post types which is required to be implemented as a plugin"
That's pretty straightforward non-acceptance right there in a 'stance' that you call it. You obviously are saying that you're 'thinking things out' yet you make this stance in a ticket as a clear cut and dry attitude of non-acceptance.
As reference:
"The reason for that review comment is that it is the current stance of the Theme Review Team that Theme functionality should involve *presentation* of data only, and that *creation* of content should be handled by Plugins. "
You write this, which is YOU making a specific writing out as speaking for the theme review team on a stance that is still 'being thought out'.
Please, continue with what you have to say, if you don't have anything to say please adjust the ticket on that theme because the stance is not finalized as you put it, it's still "being thought out".
- Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: Chip Bennett
To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Help on theme review - Did I waste my time?
Let me be clear: I don't speak for the Theme Review Team. I have never claimed that I speak for the Theme Review Team.
Also: a Theme Trac ticket is not the place for "thinking [things] out". The developer needs to be given concrete instruction.
As for decisions being passed through the "core" team: we've been discussing this topic for some time, and the discussion continues.
As for any intent to "stifle" Theme developers: I personally consider users' control of their own content to be far more important than any imposition placed on Theme developers - but even so, I have absolutely no intention to "stifle" Theme developers.
Chip
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <philip at frumph.net> wrote:
The theme failed due to your 'thinking of handling of a specialized theme'. and your response to said questioning was defined and specific, not "thinking it out".
If you're going to make something 'specific' then make it specific and in the rules until then there was no reason to fail that theme due to them having a post type - other reason's sure.
ComicPress AND Easel both use concepts of 'creation of content' inside of them that do *not* fit in a plugin since it's specialized particular for the theme itself, that theme the other user is the same way, it's a waste of plugin space and end user compliancy to go get yet-another-plugin that will only work with a singular theme.
As for your opinion, no; you speak for the group when you're speaking for a group your opinions are not your own.
I will be requesting that the theme-review team have to have all their 'decisions' be passed through the core team in the future towards whatever specifics are made by the theme review team. There obviously needs some sort of checks and balances done. If in the least passed through Otto first.
I am bringing back the original debate that was done a long time ago where theme designers were very argumentative towards 'stiffling' the themes that are made, this is a prime example of [holding back] the designers from creating unique and individual works.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chip Bennett
To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Help on theme review - Did I waste my time?
Of course I can disagree. My opinion is my own, and only I inform my own opinion. I claim no "authoritarian" viewpoint; I was merely clarifying a question from a ticket review.
We're right now in the process of thinking out handling of specialized Themes. It was the major topic of yesterday's meeting. It will be posted as a discussion topic on the Make site. Nothing is set in stone. Further, nobody has said anything about removing the possibility of specialized Themes in the Repository. Part of that implementation is going to be outside of the control of the Theme Review Team (see also: Child Themes), and I am 100% in favor of finding all possible means of supporting specialty/niche Themes. The vast untapped potential of WordPress lies in such Themes.
But I will continue to argue the principle of separation of content *creation* and content *presentation*, and the principle of user content not being locked-in to any particular Theme.
Chip
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <philip at frumph.net> wrote:
Unfortunately I disagree that you "can" disagree. This is not a position that you have authoritarian viewpoint over. The "stance" that the theme review team will remove any possibility of 'specialized' themes on the repository including mine, as well as any future themes that are contain as such; not withholding themes like the one that was on the repo for awhile that handled 'trouble tickets' if you remember that one.
Again, you are limiting the repository again and this needs to be rethought out a bit more.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chip Bennett
To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Help on theme review - Did I waste my time?
I disagree.
There needs to be some assurance that the Plugin will be maintained for as long as the Theme is maintained, otherwise, the Plugin will simply be a release-one-and-forget affair. Requiring the Theme to *use* the Plugin, rather than incorporate the functionality, ensures that users will have a maintained Plugin, and will retain use/control of their data, without being locked in to any particular Theme.
Chip
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <philip at frumph.net> wrote:
A plugin is just an extension of the theme to allow for usage in multi-variety themes, while content creation that is specific for an individual theme should be allowed.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chip Bennett
To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Help on theme review - Did I waste my time?
The reason for that review comment is that it is the current stance of the Theme Review Team that Theme functionality should involve *presentation* of data only, and that *creation* of content should be handled by Plugins. User data should not be subject to Theme "lock-in", but should be available to the user, regardless of what Theme is used.
The Repository/WordPress are not yet well-suited to handle "niche" Themes - though we certainly hope that both will better-accommodate such Themes in the future, given the vast potential of such Themes.
As a compromise, we are currently asking that any Theme that *creates* data (such as via a Custom Post Type) port that functionality to a Plugin (approved and available in the Plugin Repository), and use/integrate the Plugin functionality. This way, if the user switches Themes, his data are still available, since such data will be handled by the Plugin.
(Note: this requirement means that the Theme should actually be *dependent* upon the Plugin, rather than making the Plugin itself part of the Theme. It ensures that the Plugin functionality is kept current with Theme development, so that users retain access to/control of their content for as long as the developer maintains the Theme - and therefore, the Plugin.)
In the case of your Theme, porting the CPT functionality to a Plugin shouldn't be more than a 5-minute (or so) process. Then, you'll just need to ensure that the Theme checks for the Plugin being active and/or the CPT being available.
Chip
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Diana K. Cury <dianakac at gmail.com> wrote:
Please, someone could clarify http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/4032
I'm not undertanding this:
Even though there are a few changes to be made I cannot approve this theme because of the implementation of custom post types which is required to be implemented as a plugin. (...)
Where, who said that post types should be implemented only as a plugin, if so, why anyone said me tha before I re-submit the theme ten times?
Also, that stands for a built in plugin or a standalone one (submit as a plugin in Plugin Directory)?
Thanks,
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