[theme-reviewers] Goals and Process

Fri Jun 11 15:32:36 UTC 2010

Then wouldn't you need a detailed tracking system to keep track of
outstanding issues and which ones the author has fixed? I really like the
idea of the overall theme rating. We shouldn't be the ones to determine a
good design from a bad one. I think we should be the gatekeepers for
technical aspects (meeting requirements), but then reviewers for design
aspects. "Well... it works, but if you use it as your theme you'd be a
moron." :)

Tim

On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Gavin Pearce <GavinP at tbs.uk.com> wrote:

>  Hi David,
>
>
>
> It's a good point you make, it depends a lot on if we are gatekeepers or
> reviewers - but that said, you could also do this by the use of advisories,
> e.g.
>
>
>
> ·         a theme that has NO minors, and has completed all advisories
> would be an A.
>
> ·         a theme that has a few minors, and has a few small things
> outstanding would be a B.
>
> ·         a theme that has a lot of minors, but no major issues would be a
> c
>
> ·         etc ...
>
>
>
> Gav
>
> /gavinpearce.com
>
>
>
> *From:* david at mirmillo.com [mailto:david at mirmillo.com] *On Behalf Of *David
> Damstra
> *Sent:* 11 June 2010 16:18
>
> *To:* Gavin Pearce
> *Cc:* theme-reviewers
> *Subject:* Re: [theme-reviewers] Goals and Process
>
>
>
> Hey Gavin,
>
> I completely agree with you.  And I completely agree we stood strive for
> perfection.  And a perfect theme would all be a yes/no kinda thing with
> advisories.
>
> However, early in one of the threads, we were talking about rating themes.
> For example, this theme gets rated an A+ because it did do everything
> perfect.  But, this theme only gets a C because it's "mostly" following best
> practices.  (Not sure how gradeschool is rated in UK, in the U.S. an A is
> the highest grade you could get and an F is a Fail.)
>
> I think were you are I are crossing paths is in black and white (pass/fail)
> vs. tiered quality of themes.  Again not sure what the goal is here.  Are we
> gatekeepers or reviewers?
>
> In my mind, I am looking at theme.  Review it against the checklist and it
> seems generally OK, but room for improvement.  Taking the average of my
> review plus 2-4 others and it gets an overall Grade of a B-.  Give the theme
> author our reviews which include actionable items on how to raise from a B-
> to an A.
>
> Maybe the theme author is happy with a B-.  Maybe some user is happy to use
> a theme that is a B-, knowing that it's not the best it could be.  Maybe
> that user can take the reviewer comments and improve it to be an A and
> resubmit it to the author.
>
> -David
>
> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Gavin Pearce <GavinP at tbs.uk.com> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
>
>
> Without trying to sound too awkward, I'm afraid I still disagree.
>
>    - The theme has a clear visual hierarchy.   - It's either clear, or
>    it's not. If it's "almost" clear but not completely clear, then it's "not
>    clear" and would therefore be a no + advisory to improve slightly if
>    possible.
>    - The navigation is easy to understand.   - It either easy to
>    understand, or it isn't. If it's "almost" easy to understand, but not
>    completely easy to understand, then it's a no and as above.
>
>
>    - Where possible, decorative images are in CSS.    - All decorative
>    images are in the CSS .. if they are then yes, if not no + another advisory.
>    - The theme uses CSS for all presentational aspects.  - It either uses
>    CSS for all presentation aspects, or it doesn't.
>
> Again, remember an advisory would be only for things that are minor, and
> you'd have to get a few of them to fail.
>
> As for things that are subjective on the eye of the reviewer, such as your
> example - a "is that hierarchy 100% clear (yes/no)", is a lot easier to
> resolve with a second pair of eyes than "is that hierarchy a 2 or a 3?".
>
> I also feel, that while 'rating' things would be nice, we don't gain
> anything extra by doing it.
>
> E.g.
>
> ·         The theme uses CSS for all presentational aspects.
>
> No matter whether we rated this as a 2, 3 or 4, we'd still have the same
> bit of advice to tell the author - "Put more of your presentational images
> into the CSS".
>
> Gav
> //gavinpearce.com
>
>
>
> *From:* david at mirmillo.com [mailto:david at mirmillo.com] *On Behalf Of *David
> Damstra
>
>
> *Sent:* 11 June 2010 15:25
> *To:* Gavin Pearce
> *Cc:* theme-reviewers
> *Subject:* Re: [theme-reviewers] Goals and Process
>
>
>
> Gavin, I completely agree about the Y/N flags... but there are several
> items on the checklist that are truly subjective, for example:
>
>    - The theme has a clear visual hierarchy.
>    - The navigation is easy to understand.
>
>
>    - Where possible, decorative images are in CSS.
>    - The theme uses CSS for all presentational aspects.
>
> Not to mention general aesthetic appeals and eye of the beholder stuff.
> That is where I think your need rating scales.  Ranging from not at all (1)
> to For the most part(5) and address advisories in the free form comments.  I
> also think this is where it actually is good to have more than one reviewer
> per theme, so that many eyes can see different issues, and clear visual
> hierarchy can be interpreted different ways.  This also keeps creative
> license in the theme author's hands.  Maybe they are intending to create a
> dark navigation that I perceive as "not clear" because my monitor is
> horribly calibrated.
>
> Low subjective ratings without comments are worthless, use the comments to
> explain the rating and recommend a course of action and constructive
> criticism.  But the subjective portions are advice for improvement.  Whereas
> the Y/N portions of the site are more make it or break it.  If you don't
> pass the critical Y/N portions (or at least a minimum of them) then the
> theme is no fly until they are fixed.
>
> Again, I am just talking here... I am still unclear on what the expected
> outcome of these theme reviews are. Hoping to hear some clarification from
> Joseph.
>
>  On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Gavin Pearce <GavinP at tbs.uk.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the feedback Tim, some great ideas with the how to format it. I
> also agree with Devon earlier, though a PDF would be handy, somewhere that
> responses can also be displayed to the original author would work quicker.
>  A nice online app would be handy indeed.
>
>
>
> With the rating system though - I feel that also the subjective items
> should be a case of just simply pass/fail - largely because by their very
> nature, subjective items are somewhat subjective (excuse the pun).
>
>
>
> Is the theme widgetized as fully as possible?
>
> Are comments displayed correctly?
>
>
>
> On a scale of 1 - 5 would be very hard to judge consistently between
> reviewers. What makes a widgetized theme a 4 rather than a 3 for example?
> Also saying that, from past experience you'll also just end up with a lot of
> 3's.
>
>
>
> If a template has a MAJOR problem, it fails the review instantly.
>
> If a template has a MINOR problem, we issue an advisory to the author to
> make some changes, but continue to allow it.
>
> If a template has more than X advisories, it also fails.
>
>
>
> That way, a template that isn't fully widgetized will pass if that is it's
> only problem, but a template that isn't fully widgetized, has errors in the
> comment area, has formatting errors + others will fail.
>
>
>
> Simple yes/no checklist is the way forward  think, especially in terms of
> simplicity, consistency and quality, for both the theme authors, and
> ourseleves.
>
>
>
> Feel free to tell me I'm completely wrong though.  ;  )
>
>
>
> Gav
>
> /gavinpearce.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* tgolen at gmail.com [mailto:tgolen at gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Tim
> Golen
> *Sent:* 11 June 2010 14:44
> *To:* Gavin Pearce
> *Cc:* theme-reviewers
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [theme-reviewers] Goals and Process
>
>
>
> Hey Gav,
>
>
>
> I think what you say makes perfect sense, and I've liked where the
> discussion is headed. I too wondered about the validity of 5 star rating
> system for each item and for a lot of items in the checklist it's either
> black or white... either it works or it doesn't work. However, I think there
> are also items that could use a 5-point rating system because they are a bit
> more subjective. Such as "Are comments displayed correctly" and "Is the
> theme widgetized as fully as possible?".
>
>
>
> I think the organization of the review process could be done to extreme
> (using a bug tracking system like Bugzilla which would be a very effective
> tool for communication with reviewers and authors), but if you wanted a
> really simple solution you could also use a Google Docs Spreadsheet with the
> Form functionality. It would only take a short amount of a time to setup a
> form for the entire checklist. You could use checkboxes for the
> black-and-white items, and you could use a 5 point radio group for the more
> subjective items. Along with a text field for the name of the theme and free
> form comments at the bottom of each sub-section. With this solution you
> could use one spreadsheet per theme, or have all theme reviews in a single
> spreadsheet (they have some cool summarization views for the form data).
> Just a thought... the communication channels would still remain unresolved
> at that point.
>
>
>
> Tim
>
> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 7:07 AM, Gavin Pearce <GavinP at tbs.uk.com> wrote:
>
> Agreed almost completely.
>
> Not convinced about 1 - 5 ratings mind, you start to open up the process
> to the whim of individual reviewers again.
>
> Checklist should check for items that are:
>
>        * Critical items - No go, instant fail..
>        * Less critical - You get a 'advisory'.
>
> If you're template has more than X amount of "advisories", it doesn't
> pass. (Similar to the format of the UK Driving Test).
>
> I guess you could also get a different amount of "advisory points"
> depending on the problem, but it starts getting overly complicated
> again. Personally I think keep it as simple as possible - this will
> result in a much better consistency of what quality of template we
> allow/disallow.
>
> If built around this model, you can start to add extra criteria to
> improve the general quality of all templates, e.g.:
>        - To get a V2 version of the same template into the system, the
> author first has to demonstrate they acted upon at least some of the
> advisories issued first time round.
>
>
> Thoughts?       :)
>
>
> Gav
> /gavinpearce.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theme-reviewers-bounces at lists.wordpress.org
> [mailto:theme-reviewers-bounces at lists.wordpress.org] On Behalf Of
> chip at chipbennett.net
> Sent: 11 June 2010 13:43
> To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
> Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Goals and Process
>
> I concur.
>
> I'm thinking that Joseph (Joe?) is getting several people started on an
> initial theme review, in order to give us some better context for coming
> up with the more formalized process.
>
> That's what I'm doing with my first review, anyway: just going through
> the
> TDC and evaluating the theme against each of the checklist points.
>
> I think, once we've got some context by reviewing an initial theme,
> we'll
> better be able to evaluate what criteria are critical/required
> (GO/NO-GO),
> and which ones are more subjective (1-5 rating, or whatever) - as well
> as
> how each subjective criterion (or category) should be weighted.
>
> Of course, my first theme assignment is taking a bit (sorry, Joseph -
> the
> one you gave me threw about five errors right off the bat!), so it may
> not
> be until the evening or tomorrow morning until I can report back on it.
> In
> the meantime, I'm appreciating the opportunity to read everyone else's
> initial take on the review process.
>
> (As for getting the feedback to the theme authors themselves: I assume
> Joseph is handling that?)
>
> Chip
>
> > Hi David,
> >
> > I agree with your points. I was thinking something like a scorecard
> too.
> >
> > What I understood so far, is that we will go to check the theme
> against
> > the listed points from Theme_Development_Checklist, right? Is this our
> > only job?
> >
> > I would appreciate a clarify from Joseph too.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Daniel
> >
> >
> >> Hi Joseph (and everyone else),
> >>
> >> First, is it Joseph or Joe?
> >>
> >> Second, can you clarify what exactly the goals are of a theme review?
> >> What are we trying to accomplish? I realize we are trying to improve
> the
> >> quality and reliability of themes, but how is that going to work?
> >> You've assigned some theme reviews to participants here, but they are
> >> reporting "problems" back to us, not to the author to fix.  Is there
> a
> >> process I am not seeing?
> >>
> >> It seems to me, and I apologize if I am speaking out of turn, is that
> >> all of the information on
> >>
> http://codex.wordpress.org/Theme_Development_Checklist#Theme_Unit_Test
> >> could be turned into a scorecard.  It's already broken up into
> sections.
> >>  Give each bullet list a line item with a 1-5 rating or a y/n and set
> a
> >> comment section for free form comments at the end of each sub
> section.
> >> Then a theme submission could come in, be assigned to 3-5 of us, and
> we
> >> each complete a scorecard.  (heck portions of it could be automated.)
> >> Then send these scorecards back to the theme author where they can
> >> digest what they have done right, and what needs improvement.
> Without
> >> being too rigid, this process is crying for some formality of method.
> >> This also gives the theme author feedback, but not at the whim of one
> >> reviewer since some of the points (aesthetics in particular) are very
> >> subjective.
> >>
> >> Just a thought...
> >>
> >> -David _______________________________________________
> >> theme-reviewers mailing list
> >> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
> >> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
> >
> > --
> > Daniel Zilli _ Production Executive _ Jilliz Ltd.
> >
> > Phone: +66 (0) 85 334 1224 | Website: http://www.jilliz.com
> > 288/43 BaanMai Puttabucha 36, Bangmod, Thungkru Bangkok 10140.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > theme-reviewers mailing list
> > theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
> > http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
> >
>
>
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