[wp-hackers] Making WordPress database independent

Mon Feb 7 19:30:36 UTC 2011

Actually, trunk is the current version of whatever's being developed,
right now that's 3.1 - though I must warn you that if you do fork this
on github and put your work into this - there is a very slim chance
your work will be considered for core. The only good you're probably
doing here is that you're giving other people a good starting point at
doing something similar. So don't walk into this thinking it's going
to get into core, walk into this as you're taking one of the first
steps towards showing how this can be done.

WP will likely remain on SVN for some time to come, though there are
internal talks of other options which involves a considerable amount
of time that may or may not make it feasible in the near future.

-Scott

On Feb 7, 1:26 pm, Piyush Mishra <m... at piyushmishra.com> wrote:
> Does the code athttp://core.svn.wordpress.org/trunk/remain at the current
> development revision of WordPress? I can start the move from my end by
> cloning that into a github repo, work on it and developers who want the
> change can fork>update and send pull requests, if the core devs see the move
> and understand the need of the change, they can move it back to svn/any new
> versioning system that WP is planning? As Scott pointed out, "I think I can"
>
> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Scott Kingsley Clark <sc... at skcdev.com>wrote:
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Right, in my experience using a CMS is like buying a home. You know
> > you may eventually move so you're willing to make some concessions,
> > but if it's missing something you absolutely want then you're more
> > than likely going to look at other houses that have it over taking a
> > house that doesn't. For businesses, it's sort of the same thing since
> > people looking at a CMS look for certain features that they need, if a
> > CMS doesn't have it then they're going to move onto other ones that do
> > - and WP never knows about it because they glance at WP and it's
> > requirements and say "That can't do that", regardless of the existence
> > of some complicated installation process to get it to do what they
> > want. You could almost compare this to life before Custom Post Types,
> > in which you could just use Pages or Posts with categories for
> > everything. Yeah, you could get it done - but it's not an efficient
> > solution - it's a hack.
>
> > -Scott
>
> > On Feb 7, 1:09 pm, Piyush Mishra <m... at piyushmishra.com> wrote:
> > > oh, I dont think I can work my way through the talking with core devs and
> > > contributors and explaining/realizing why or why not to support more
> > dbmses
> > > What I can do is, complete the layer on a fork of wordpress on github
> > with
> > > some help and may be hope for the core devs to pull that in as the work
> > is
> > > already done. I can work on it as a GSoC project and lend a helping hand.
>
> > > As far as I know, in regex vs rewrite, rewrite wins hands down in
> > > performance, cleaner codes, decoupling. and I dont need numbers/tests to
> > > prove that. now the fact that almost all people use wordpress with MySQL
> > and
> > > the core devs donot feel the need to implement the layer, imho is kind of
> > > mutual. people wont know/use any product for something that the product
> > > doesn't support out of the box / with some simplistic plugin. if they
> > need
> > > another dbms so bad and donot get a simple solution for it, they can
> > simply
> > > switch to another CMS/framework that supports it or if they really love
> > wp,
> > > they'll probably make hacks better than adding db.php(obviously putting
> > them
> > > out of the updates cycle) so this MySQL only trend can go on forever. :(
>
> > > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:21 AM, Scott Kingsley Clark <sc... at skcdev.com
> > >wrote:
>
> > > > Some discussion has been made on the WordPress Core Trac regarding
> > > > supporting other database types, though it appears that the direction
> > > > that WordPress core has taken is against supporting other database
> > > > types comes at the cost of increasing the amount of effort in either
> > > > rewriting functions and / or RegEx-ing your way through the barriers
> > > > that the MySQL only support WordPress currently restricts itself to.
> > > > Yes, many developers have gone through this and built solutions of
> > > > many different types, but it doesn't compare to what real integration
> > > > could bring, or additional provisions within Core for these efforts.
>
> > > > Any attempt to abstract WordPress beyond MySQL will only waste core
> > > > dev time as they have to then explain why they won't be making any
> > > > changes. I apologize for my own time wasting on that end - I believe
> > > > some sort of page in the Codex or About section of the WP.org should
> > > > compile the full explanation of the reasoning behind the MySQL-only
> > > > support WP core has restricted itself to with some sort of evidence in
> > > > favor of that restriction, offering up additional resources to plugins
> > > > which were developed to support other engines that have been
> > > > recommended by core devs or other respectable devs / firms in the WP
> > > > community.
>
> > > > There's much to be done, calling WP a full blown CMS right now is
> > > > tough, since many people's idea of 'full' can be different. In this
> > > > database discussion, a great question rises yet again as it has over
> > > > the past many years of WP's life.
>
> > > > Will there be some form of redemption by core as more community
> > > > members speak out in favor of additional support? No one can tell, at
> > > > least not for the very near future. We'll see how the  WordPress
> > > > landscape changes over the next few years. For now, your only hope is
> > > > to prove them wrong -- that people want to use these other database
> > > > engines -- with solid proof of why it would be a good addition to core
> > > > and the impact it could have in making WordPress better for more
> > > > people than just MySQL alone. Think of your task as being a prosecutor
> > > > in a court case, WordPress is the defendant, and you've got to
> > > > persuade the jury (Core Devs and major contributors) to see the future
> > > > and what they're doing by limiting growth.
>
> > > > That's my two dollars anyways.. I've been from the bottom to top of
> > > > the Core Dev ladder, the answer is the same all around -- They simply
> > > > don't have this as a priority or even in sights for the next few years
> > > > and for it to happen we will need to orchestrate this as a community
> > > > effort to prove to them that it is a priority. I know right now, it
> > > > seems like we're protesting about the war in Vietnam (US History), but
> > > > we can only make a difference if it's truly what the community wants
> > > > and is the 'right' choice to expand the use of WordPress and it's
> > > > ability to perform to meet the needs of everyone who it can benefit.
>
> > > > Good luck until then, just say "I think I can", sorry for the video -
> > > > I had to:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoVRV_xGEqc
>
> > > > -Scott
>
> > > > On Feb 7, 11:23 am, Piyush Mishra <m... at piyushmishra.com> wrote:
> > > > > May be using DAOs will help. we can push all functionality to the DAO
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > respective db layer and simple inbuilt functions from the specific
> > vendor
> > > > > can be used where needed and in other databases, the same features
> > can be
> > > > > implemented at the code level??
> > > > > Just an idea yet. but it seems good to me.
> > > > > 1 factory, 1 PDO or similar base class and few interfaces and their
> > mysql
> > > > > implementation will get us to where we currently stand with MySQL, we
> > > > might
> > > > > not actually need whole ORMs etc
>
> > > > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Brian Layman <
> > > > wp-hack... at thecodecave.com>wrote:
>
> > > > > > On 2/7/2011 11:49 AM, Piyush Mishra wrote:
>
> > > > > >> With NoSQL picking up craze, postgre gaining popularity and
> > WordPress
> > > > > >> moving
> > > > > >> towards being a complete CMS, its a move that we should make.
> > > > > >> Propel might be a good option, may be DAOs.
> > > > > >> But this option is good for progress of the CMS as a whole.
> > > > > >> I bet people will start discovering new areas for improvement
> > within
> > > > the
> > > > > >> core as they implement database abstraction.
>
> > > > > > Will they?  Admittedly anything that causes people to look at code
> > > > again
> > > > > > can do that, but would it introduce any major improvements?
> > Remember -
> > > > every
> > > > > > feature that isn't supported in MySQL and all our "supported"
> > database
> > > > > > engines would be excluded from use..  Heck, we can't even
> > generically
> > > > use
> > > > > > features that require MySQL 5.0 yet (assuming 3.1 hasn't dropped
> > before
> > > > I
> > > > > > hit send).
>
> > > > > > I'm really curious to see how having access to stored procedures,
> > > > triggers,
> > > > > > views will affect the WordPress Core.  I wonder where that rabbit
> > trail
> > > > will
> > > > > > lead us.
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Brian Layman
> > > > > >http://eHermitsInc.com
> > > > > > Managed WordPress Hosting
>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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>
> > > > > --
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Piyush Mishrahttp://www.piyushmishra.com/
> > > > > Life's Short, Live it to the maximum
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> > > --
> > > Regards
> > > Piyush Mishrahttp://www.piyushmishra.com/
> > > Life's Short, Live it to the maximum
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> --
> Regards
> Piyush Mishrahttp://www.piyushmishra.com/
> Life's Short, Live it to the maximum
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