[wp-hackers] Making WordPress database independent

Mon Feb 7 19:26:03 UTC 2011

Does the code at http://core.svn.wordpress.org/trunk/ remain at the current
development revision of WordPress? I can start the move from my end by
cloning that into a github repo, work on it and developers who want the
change can fork>update and send pull requests, if the core devs see the move
and understand the need of the change, they can move it back to svn/any new
versioning system that WP is planning? As Scott pointed out, "I think I can"

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Scott Kingsley Clark <scott at skcdev.com>wrote:

> Right, in my experience using a CMS is like buying a home. You know
> you may eventually move so you're willing to make some concessions,
> but if it's missing something you absolutely want then you're more
> than likely going to look at other houses that have it over taking a
> house that doesn't. For businesses, it's sort of the same thing since
> people looking at a CMS look for certain features that they need, if a
> CMS doesn't have it then they're going to move onto other ones that do
> - and WP never knows about it because they glance at WP and it's
> requirements and say "That can't do that", regardless of the existence
> of some complicated installation process to get it to do what they
> want. You could almost compare this to life before Custom Post Types,
> in which you could just use Pages or Posts with categories for
> everything. Yeah, you could get it done - but it's not an efficient
> solution - it's a hack.
>
> -Scott
>
>
> On Feb 7, 1:09 pm, Piyush Mishra <m... at piyushmishra.com> wrote:
> > oh, I dont think I can work my way through the talking with core devs and
> > contributors and explaining/realizing why or why not to support more
> dbmses
> > What I can do is, complete the layer on a fork of wordpress on github
> with
> > some help and may be hope for the core devs to pull that in as the work
> is
> > already done. I can work on it as a GSoC project and lend a helping hand.
> >
> > As far as I know, in regex vs rewrite, rewrite wins hands down in
> > performance, cleaner codes, decoupling. and I dont need numbers/tests to
> > prove that. now the fact that almost all people use wordpress with MySQL
> and
> > the core devs donot feel the need to implement the layer, imho is kind of
> > mutual. people wont know/use any product for something that the product
> > doesn't support out of the box / with some simplistic plugin. if they
> need
> > another dbms so bad and donot get a simple solution for it, they can
> simply
> > switch to another CMS/framework that supports it or if they really love
> wp,
> > they'll probably make hacks better than adding db.php(obviously putting
> them
> > out of the updates cycle) so this MySQL only trend can go on forever. :(
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:21 AM, Scott Kingsley Clark <sc... at skcdev.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Some discussion has been made on the WordPress Core Trac regarding
> > > supporting other database types, though it appears that the direction
> > > that WordPress core has taken is against supporting other database
> > > types comes at the cost of increasing the amount of effort in either
> > > rewriting functions and / or RegEx-ing your way through the barriers
> > > that the MySQL only support WordPress currently restricts itself to.
> > > Yes, many developers have gone through this and built solutions of
> > > many different types, but it doesn't compare to what real integration
> > > could bring, or additional provisions within Core for these efforts.
> >
> > > Any attempt to abstract WordPress beyond MySQL will only waste core
> > > dev time as they have to then explain why they won't be making any
> > > changes. I apologize for my own time wasting on that end - I believe
> > > some sort of page in the Codex or About section of the WP.org should
> > > compile the full explanation of the reasoning behind the MySQL-only
> > > support WP core has restricted itself to with some sort of evidence in
> > > favor of that restriction, offering up additional resources to plugins
> > > which were developed to support other engines that have been
> > > recommended by core devs or other respectable devs / firms in the WP
> > > community.
> >
> > > There's much to be done, calling WP a full blown CMS right now is
> > > tough, since many people's idea of 'full' can be different. In this
> > > database discussion, a great question rises yet again as it has over
> > > the past many years of WP's life.
> >
> > > Will there be some form of redemption by core as more community
> > > members speak out in favor of additional support? No one can tell, at
> > > least not for the very near future. We'll see how the  WordPress
> > > landscape changes over the next few years. For now, your only hope is
> > > to prove them wrong -- that people want to use these other database
> > > engines -- with solid proof of why it would be a good addition to core
> > > and the impact it could have in making WordPress better for more
> > > people than just MySQL alone. Think of your task as being a prosecutor
> > > in a court case, WordPress is the defendant, and you've got to
> > > persuade the jury (Core Devs and major contributors) to see the future
> > > and what they're doing by limiting growth.
> >
> > > That's my two dollars anyways.. I've been from the bottom to top of
> > > the Core Dev ladder, the answer is the same all around -- They simply
> > > don't have this as a priority or even in sights for the next few years
> > > and for it to happen we will need to orchestrate this as a community
> > > effort to prove to them that it is a priority. I know right now, it
> > > seems like we're protesting about the war in Vietnam (US History), but
> > > we can only make a difference if it's truly what the community wants
> > > and is the 'right' choice to expand the use of WordPress and it's
> > > ability to perform to meet the needs of everyone who it can benefit.
> >
> > > Good luck until then, just say "I think I can", sorry for the video -
> > > I had to:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoVRV_xGEqc
> >
> > > -Scott
> >
> > > On Feb 7, 11:23 am, Piyush Mishra <m... at piyushmishra.com> wrote:
> > > > May be using DAOs will help. we can push all functionality to the DAO
> of
> > > the
> > > > respective db layer and simple inbuilt functions from the specific
> vendor
> > > > can be used where needed and in other databases, the same features
> can be
> > > > implemented at the code level??
> > > > Just an idea yet. but it seems good to me.
> > > > 1 factory, 1 PDO or similar base class and few interfaces and their
> mysql
> > > > implementation will get us to where we currently stand with MySQL, we
> > > might
> > > > not actually need whole ORMs etc
> >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Brian Layman <
> > > wp-hack... at thecodecave.com>wrote:
> >
> > > > > On 2/7/2011 11:49 AM, Piyush Mishra wrote:
> >
> > > > >> With NoSQL picking up craze, postgre gaining popularity and
> WordPress
> > > > >> moving
> > > > >> towards being a complete CMS, its a move that we should make.
> > > > >> Propel might be a good option, may be DAOs.
> > > > >> But this option is good for progress of the CMS as a whole.
> > > > >> I bet people will start discovering new areas for improvement
> within
> > > the
> > > > >> core as they implement database abstraction.
> >
> > > > > Will they?  Admittedly anything that causes people to look at code
> > > again
> > > > > can do that, but would it introduce any major improvements?
> Remember -
> > > every
> > > > > feature that isn't supported in MySQL and all our "supported"
> database
> > > > > engines would be excluded from use..  Heck, we can't even
> generically
> > > use
> > > > > features that require MySQL 5.0 yet (assuming 3.1 hasn't dropped
> before
> > > I
> > > > > hit send).
> >
> > > > > I'm really curious to see how having access to stored procedures,
> > > triggers,
> > > > > views will affect the WordPress Core.  I wonder where that rabbit
> trail
> > > will
> > > > > lead us.
> >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Brian Layman
> > > > >http://eHermitsInc.com
> > > > > Managed WordPress Hosting
> >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> > > > --
> > > > Regards
> > > > Piyush Mishrahttp://www.piyushmishra.com/
> > > > Life's Short, Live it to the maximum
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> > --
> > Regards
> > Piyush Mishrahttp://www.piyushmishra.com/
> > Life's Short, Live it to the maximum
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-- 
Regards
Piyush Mishra
http://www.piyushmishra.com/
Life's Short, Live it to the maximum