[theme-reviewers] Why can't theme authors have a second version of a theme?
Bruce Wampler
weavertheme at gmail.com
Sat Sep 27 16:11:37 UTC 2014
I just sent a note to Trent, too.
I'm not 100% sure that these people recognize that they really aren't a
little free software organization any more, and even though the base
organization is non-profit, they are certainly subject to a whole lot of
interstate commerce law. I have little doubt that depriving us of our
brand name is not even remotely legal.
I would seriously consider joining with you in seeking legal counsel
and even in a lawsuit if it comes to it. They are wrong, and they would
be depriving us of our legal rights, even if they are a volunteer
non-profit. And they are so wrong.
Bruce
> Bryan Hadaway <mailto:bhadaway at gmail.com>
> September 27, 2014 at 10:02 AM
> *@Bruce* - Thank you very much for hopping into this discussion, as
> ironically, everyone has been using your theme as an example for
> precedence of how this situation should be handled in favor of NOT
> allowing us to do what we need to, when in fact how you handled the
> major Weaver upgrade is exactly how we would like to handle
> Responsive's new upgrade.
>
> Not confusing at all and definitely in the best interest for the
> end-user. The alternative suggestions so far, just develop
> backwards-compatibility (bloat), discontinue one version to open
> another (dropping support for users that don't want to switch),
> changing the theme name (confusing users who are looking for the
> newest incarnation), update directly over version 1.0 (inevitably
> breaking many websites and taking the blame for it) etc. have all been
> both more difficult in terms of development and more confusing for
> users, besides being contrary to logic.
>
> What you've done and what we would like to do is hands-down the most
> graceful way to handle the situation. Hopefully, we get a yes on that.
>
> Thank you.
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> Weaver Theme <mailto:weavertheme at gmail.com>
> September 27, 2014 at 9:54 AM
> And by the way, "Weaver" and "Weaver II" co-existed as live themes for
> a couple of years. And there was MINIMAL confusion by users between
> the two. But I can't imagine the chaos that would happen if "Weaver"
> were dropped when "Weaver II" was released. They were not compatible!
> But the existing "Weaver" user base deserved the "luxury" of automatic
> theme updates, which occurred with "Weaver" for at least 2 years after
> "Weaver II" was include.
>
> And it make sense the that same deal be accorded to existing
> "Responsive" and "Weaver II" users.
>
> And to be honest about this whole thing, would I really be allowed to
> submit a theme called "Twenty Fifteen" right now? NO WAY! "Twenty
> Anything". Nope. "Twenty Whatever" belongs to WP core. I know that,
> You know that.
>
> But according to some of the logic being given in this discussion, the
> release of "Twenty Fourteen" should result in the immediate removal of
> all the other Twenty Something themes. That would obviously be absurd.
>
> Twenty-something is a brand. Any theme is a brand, really. I always
> understood the rule against name variants was to prevent using an
> overly generic name, to reduce theme cloning, and to protect the brand
> name of the original theme author. But I can't that this situation
> will be that burdensome to theme reviewers.
>
> Is the goal of all this to totally prevent using trademarked names
> (whether legally trademarked names, or de-facto trademarks) in the
> repository, even if the theme authors believe in the principles of
> GPL, and the way is now does, and always has, allow developers to make
> money from free software?
>
> So what can we do? "Super Responsive", "New Responsive", "Responsive
> Revised", "NextGen Weaver", "Weaver Rewired"? It is really important
> that theme shops be allowed to leverage brand names, and as long as
> there aren't theme directory name conflicts, it seems that authors of
> existing themes should in fact be allowed variants on the same name.
> Perhaps a simple revision to the policy that only the original
> developer (or authorized successor) (like WP and Twenty-something!)
> can submit theme with variants on the name.
>
> Bruce Wampler
>
>
> Weaver Theme <mailto:weavertheme at gmail.com>
> September 27, 2014 at 9:23 AM
> I've just seen this whole discussion, but at the risk of really
> killing my own theme, I need to give some input.
>
> A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, (so it seems now), I
> released my first theme called 2010 Weaver. I changed that pretty
> quickly to simply Weaver. For quite some time, the original Weaver
> theme was a top 20 most popular theme. So the "Weaver" became a known
> and respected brand.
>
> After some time, I did a major rewrite of the theme that was
> essentially a completely new theme. But the "Weaver" brand was
> recognized and important. So, I released the new version as "Weaver
> II", and continued to support the old "Weaver" theme for a couple of
> more years. So there was "Weaver II" and "Weaver", and I really had
> little issues with confusion of the users, and over time, I finally
> discontinued support for the original "Weaver".
>
> So today, Weaver II also has tens or hundreds of thousands of users,
> just like "Responsive". But time for a new generation, which I've been
> working on for over half a year now, and which has been undergoing
> extensive testing by my user base. I have intended, following a
> marketing plan based on past experience, to release the completely
> new, completely rewritten, and completely incompatible version as
> "Weaver X" - not the roman numeral X, but X as in X Games or other
> "eXtreme" brands. The goal, of course, is to release a new, updated,
> state of the art options based theme, while keeping my pretty large
> user base connected, and the "Weaver" brand active.
>
> This is really critical - whether that be "Responsive" or "Weaver" or
> whatever. In many many ways, this is no different than the WP brand
> of "Twenty-Something" themes. How, really is "Responsive", "Resposive
> II", "Weaver", "Weaver II", or "Weaver X" any different than "Twenty
> Eleven", "Twenty Twelve", etc. The brand is "Responsive", "Weaver",
> and "Twenty X".
>
> I've developed a highly successful and popular theme using the
> "Weaver" brand. I've worked very hard to make the free version found
> on the WP theme repository to be a robust, fully featured theme that
> is not a limited, restricted "Lite" version. Sure, I have an upsell
> version, but the base versions are still extremely functional. My
> history of developing and releasing GPL software goes way way back -
> over 20 years.
>
> But - I recognize the value of a brand name, and deeply believe that
> as long as the themes we contribute truly fall into the spirit of free
> software, there should be minimal restrictions on limitations of how
> theme developers choose to leverage that brand name.
>
> Bruce Wampler
>
>
>
> Liane Blanco <mailto:lianeblanco at gmail.com>
> September 27, 2014 at 8:04 AM
> Cool, I didn't think so but wanted to make sure. I would hate to have
> to rename it since the name fits it so perfectly. I generally like
> one-word names for some reason....
>
>
>
>
> --
> Insert clever phrase here
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> Rohit Tripathi <mailto:rohitink at live.com>
> September 27, 2014 at 7:32 AM
> I don't think that's a problem. But if it was Haunted 2.0, then it
> would have been a problem.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 27-Sep-2014, at 5:20 pm, Liane Blanco <lianeblanco at gmail.com
> <mailto:lianeblanco at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Can y'all clarify something for me re: names. I have submiited a new
>> theme called "Haunted" to the directory, which has not yet been
>> reviewed. There is another theme called "Haunted House" that I did
>> not write. The two themes are quite different in appearance and
>> style. However, in my theme trac page for Haunted, the list of
>> previous versions pulls up "Haunted House".
>>
>> Should I change the name? I would rather not as it really fits the
>> look of the template, I don't think there's any way someone could
>> confuse the two themes. Thanks!
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Trent Lapinski
>> <trent at cyberchimps.com <mailto:trent at cyberchimps.com>> wrote:
>>
>> On Sep 26, 2014, at 10:02 PM, Bryan Hadaway <bhadaway at gmail.com
>> <mailto:bhadaway at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> *@Otto* - No worries man :).
>>>
>>> Sure, Responsive is a dumb name, but it's our dumb name, a name
>>> that is beyond established and that will continue on.
>>>
>>> Let's remain objective and on-point though.
>>>
>>> We're asking for an exception in a unique situation. Hopefully
>>> we can get a definite yes or no on whether we can get
>>> http://wordpress.org/themes/responsive-ii live while also still
>>> supporting http://wordpress.org/themes/responsive for end-users
>>> and making the upgrade optional, not mandatory.
>>>
>>> Please think on it and if it's a no, we'll figure out something
>>> else, we always do.
>>
>> Well put Bryan.
>>
>> Again from the beginning here I was simply looking for an
>> alternative or a solution to this problem.
>>
>> I e-mailed this list for help, not to be pushed around.
>>
>> Otto, just a year ago we were working on solving problems
>> together in person at WordCamp SF, I’m not sure why can’t do the
>> same online.
>>
>> I don’t make the trends, I just follow them. We just want to
>> release our new theme that we’ve been working on most of this year.
>>
>> -Trent
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Insert clever phrase here
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--
-----------
Bruce Wampler, Ph.D.
Software developer
Creator of first spelling checker for a PC
Creator of Grammatik(tm), first true grammar checker
e-mail: weaver at weavertheme dot com
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