[theme-reviewers] GPL and limiting usage

Wed Oct 9 23:19:59 UTC 2013

there are no usage rights, just sharing/modifing rights

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:45 AM, Trent Lapinski <trent at cyberchimps.com>wrote:

> You would have to edit out the API, and then figure out what system
> they're using to register the extra features, and possibly write your own
> code to replace their system since you removed the API.
>
> This is probably something even Otto or Nacin would struggle with
> initially, so holding everyone to the same standards as rock star
> developers is not really a valid argument.
>
> The software was purposely crippled, and your usage rights have been
> limited which is against the terms of the GPL, and WPORG Policy.
>
> --Trent Lapinski
> =============
> CEO of CyberChimps Inc
>
> On Oct 9, 2013, at 4:09 PM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> but you can edit out that API, if you do pagelines won't come after you
> legally because plugin is GPL. Thats what GPL does, gives you legal
> protection, nothing else.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:35 AM, Trent Lapinski <trent at cyberchimps.com>wrote:
>
>> Are users restricted from copying, distributing, or modifying the code?
>>
>>
>> Yes. PageLines uses a proprietary usage limiting API that prevents users
>> from copying, distributing and modifying their paid features which are
>> entirely software based (not a service).
>>
>> The usage limitations are only lifted if the user pays $24 a month for
>> unlimited usage rights, and if you stop paying all of your websites lose
>> functionality no matter how long or how much you've already paid into the
>> system.
>>
>> You can't actually buy the features, only "rent" them.
>>
>>    --Trent Lapinski
>> =============
>> CEO of CyberChimps Inc
>>
>>
>> On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:56 PM, Justin Tadlock <justin at justintadlock.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I'd like to point, once again, to something I've already said on this
>> matter.
>>
>> From the actual GPL license <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html><http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html>
>> :
>>
>> > "Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not
>> covered by this License; they are outside its scope."
>>
>> Are users restricted from copying, distributing, or modifying the code?
>> **Any** activity beyond that has nothing to do with the GPL.  If we want to
>> continue talking about the GPL, fine.  But, please answer this question
>> first.
>>
>> If we want to discuss our policy on themes like this, that would be a
>> much more fruitful discussion, one in which I think many of us would be
>> more likely to agree on.
>>
>> On 10/9/2013 5:49 PM, Trent Lapinski wrote:
>>
>> If the Theme Review Team and .org Admins are confused by PageLines
>> marketing then what do you think the average customer thinks when they find
>> out they're stuck?
>>
>>  People won't realize what PageLines "service" actually means until
>> PageLines flips the kill switch and they lose access to features they
>> already paid for and can no longer update the website they've built.
>>
>>  Your understanding of the GPL was correct according to the GNU.
>>
>>  I do not believe Otto and Nacin were incorrect in their logic or
>> reasoning, I think they simply didn't understand the full application and
>> deceptive nature of what PageLines is actually doing until now.
>>
>>  We got clarification from the GNU on this issue so we could bring about
>> a resolution and properly educate everyone on what applies here in this
>> particular case and for future similar cases.
>>
>>  As far as I'm aware we've never seen anyone try to do this before, it's
>> a very clever strategy to lock users in that looks like a support service
>> at first glance but its much more then that.
>>
>>  It's a usage limitation that contradicts users rights as outlined in
>> the GPL, and is also clearly against WordPress.org<http://wordpress.org/>policy.
>>
>>  There is nothing wrong with software as a service if you are actually
>> providing a service. What PageLines is claiming is their software is the
>> service, which is simply not true. It's a marketing ploy that even a lot of
>> people here fell for which further illustrates the deceptive nature of what
>> they're trying to accomplish.
>>
>>     --Trent Lapinski
>> =============
>> CEO of CyberChimps Inc
>>
>>  On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:20 PM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>    It is not against GPL, GPL gives you legal permission to copy,
>> distribute and/or modify the software.
>>  You can do all that with their plugin. (atleast pagelines say you can
>> edit out the restrictions)
>>
>>  Its not already paid for, plugin is not just $8.
>>
>>  I always thought this wasn't allowed as per WPORG policy, but Otto/Nacin
>> says it is so it is. Maybe their higher up's may overrule them and until
>> they do its allowed under WPORG policy.
>>
>>  Its not morally/ethically wrong because they are putting the pricing
>> plan upfront, users are buying knowing that they have to pay a monthly fee.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 3:41 AM, Trent Lapinski <trent at cyberchimps.com>wrote:
>>
>>>  Selling people a WordPress theme is selling them a tool to build a
>>> website with.
>>>
>>>  How would you feel if you went to Home Depot and were told you can't
>>> buy the hammer you need to build a bird house, you instead have to join
>>> Home Depots "subscription" to get access to the hammer you need to build a
>>> bird house, but you're only allowed to build 1 bird house with that hammer.
>>> If you want to build more then 1 bird house you have to pay signficnatly
>>> more money monthly to do so.
>>>
>>>  If you finishing building your bird house and stop paying they will
>>> take your hammer away, and also lock you out of features from the birdhouse
>>> you already built and paid for.
>>>
>>>  That's what PageLines is doing, and thats why this is against the GPL,
>>> WordPress.org <http://wordpress.org/> Policy, and morally and ethically
>>> wrong.
>>>
>>>  This has nothing to do with upgrade fees, support, or anything else.
>>> That has to do with limiting and crippling software that customers have
>>> already paid for and forcing them to continue to pay for something or else
>>> they lose access to the tools they need to maintain or update their website
>>> in the future.
>>>
>>>  This is not a support service, but merely a clever way to lock users
>>> in forever.
>>>
>>>        --Trent Lapinski
>>> =============
>>> CEO of CyberChimps Inc
>>>
>>>   On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Bryan Hadaway <bhadaway at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>   Whatever the case, I feel we're actually getting much closer to all
>>> being at least in the same book, maybe not quite the same page yet. But,
>>> much closer to a reasonable and productive understanding/conclusion.
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