<div dir="ltr">there are no usage rights, just sharing/modifing rights<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:45 AM, Trent Lapinski <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:trent@cyberchimps.com" target="_blank">trent@cyberchimps.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">You would have to edit out the API, and then figure out what system they're using to register the extra features, and possibly write your own code to replace their system since you removed the API.<div>
<br></div><div>This is probably something even Otto or Nacin would struggle with initially, so holding everyone to the same standards as rock star developers is not really a valid argument.<div><br></div><div>The software was purposely crippled, and your usage rights have been limited which is against the terms of the GPL, and WPORG Policy.<div>
<div class="im"><br><div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
--Trent Lapinski<br>=============<br>CEO of CyberChimps Inc<br></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></div>
</div>
<br></div><div><div class="h5"><div><div>On Oct 9, 2013, at 4:09 PM, Srikanth Koneru <<a href="mailto:tskk79@gmail.com" target="_blank">tskk79@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">but you can edit out that API, if you do pagelines won't come after you legally because plugin is GPL. Thats what GPL does, gives you legal protection, nothing else.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:35 AM, Trent Lapinski <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:trent@cyberchimps.com" target="_blank">trent@cyberchimps.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Are users restricted from copying, distributing, or modifying the code? </div></blockquote><br></div>
<div>Yes. PageLines uses a proprietary usage limiting API that prevents users from copying, distributing and modifying their paid features which are entirely software based (not a service).</div><div><br></div><div>The usage limitations are only lifted if the user pays $24 a month for unlimited usage rights, and if you stop paying all of your websites lose functionality no matter how long or how much you've already paid into the system.</div>
<div><br></div><div>You can't actually buy the features, only "rent" them.</div><div><br><div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
--Trent Lapinski<br>=============<br>CEO of CyberChimps Inc<br><br></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></div>
</div>
<br></div><div><div><div><div>On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:56 PM, Justin Tadlock <<a href="mailto:justin@justintadlock.com" target="_blank">justin@justintadlock.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
I'd like to point, once again, to something I've already said on
this matter.<br>
<br>
From the actual GPL license
<a href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html" target="_blank"><http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html></a>:<br>
<br>
> "Activities other than copying, distribution and modification
are not covered by this License; they are outside its scope."<br>
<br>
Are users restricted from copying, distributing, or modifying the
code? **Any** activity beyond that has nothing to do with the GPL.
If we want to continue talking about the GPL, fine. But, please
answer this question first.<br>
<br>
If we want to discuss our policy on themes like this, that would be
a much more fruitful discussion, one in which I think many of us
would be more likely to agree on.<br>
<br>
<div>On 10/9/2013 5:49 PM, Trent Lapinski
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>If the Theme Review Team and .org Admins are confused by
PageLines marketing then what do you think the average customer
thinks when they find out they're stuck?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>People won't realize what PageLines "service" actually means
until PageLines flips the kill switch and they lose access to
features they already paid for and can no longer update the
website they've built. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your understanding of the GPL was correct according to the
GNU.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do not believe Otto and Nacin were incorrect in their logic
or reasoning, I think they simply didn't understand the full
application and deceptive nature of what PageLines is actually
doing until now.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We got clarification from the GNU on this issue so we could
bring about a resolution and properly educate everyone on what
applies here in this particular case and for future similar
cases.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As far as I'm aware we've never seen anyone try to do this
before, it's a very clever strategy to lock users in that looks
like a support service at first glance but its much more then
that.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's a usage limitation that contradicts users rights as
outlined in the GPL, and is also clearly against <a href="http://wordpress.org/" target="_blank">WordPress.org</a>
policy.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is nothing wrong with software as a service if you are
actually providing a service. What PageLines is claiming is
their software is the service, which is simply not true. It's a
marketing ploy that even a lot of people here fell for which
further illustrates the deceptive nature of what they're trying
to accomplish.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">--Trent
Lapinski<br>
=============<br>
CEO of CyberChimps Inc<br>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:20 PM, Srikanth Koneru <<a href="mailto:tskk79@gmail.com" target="_blank">tskk79@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>It is not against GPL, GPL gives you legal
permission to copy,
distribute and/or modify the software.<br>
</div>
You can do all that with their plugin. (atleast
pagelines say you can edit out the restrictions)<br>
<br>
</div>
Its not already paid for, plugin is not just $8.<br>
<br>
</div>
I always thought this wasn't allowed as per WPORG policy,
but Otto/Nacin says it is so it is. Maybe their higher
up's may overrule them and until they do its allowed under
WPORG policy.<br>
<br>
</div>
Its not morally/ethically wrong because they are putting the
pricing plan upfront, users are buying knowing that they
have to pay a monthly fee.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 3:41 AM,
Trent Lapinski <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:trent@cyberchimps.com" target="_blank">trent@cyberchimps.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>Selling people a WordPress theme is selling them
a tool to build a website with.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How would you feel if you went to Home Depot and
were told you can't buy the hammer you need to build
a bird house, you instead have to join Home Depots
"subscription" to get access to the hammer you need
to build a bird house, but you're only allowed to
build 1 bird house with that hammer. If you want to
build more then 1 bird house you have to pay
signficnatly more money monthly to do so.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you finishing building your bird house and
stop paying they will take your hammer away, and
also lock you out of features from the birdhouse you
already built and paid for.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
That's what PageLines is doing, and thats why this
is against the GPL, <a href="http://wordpress.org/" target="_blank">WordPress.org</a>
Policy, and morally and ethically wrong.</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This has nothing to do with upgrade fees,
support, or anything else. That has to do with
limiting and crippling software that customers
have already paid for and forcing them to continue
to pay for something or else they lose access to
the tools they need to maintain or update their
website in the future.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is not a support service, but merely a
clever way to lock users in forever.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
--Trent Lapinski<br>
=============<br>
CEO of CyberChimps Inc<br>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Bryan Hadaway
<<a href="mailto:bhadaway@gmail.com" target="_blank">bhadaway@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Whatever the case, I feel
we're actually getting much closer to all
being at least in the same book, maybe not
quite the same page yet. But, much closer
to a reasonable and productive
understanding/conclusion.<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
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