[theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin territory?

[Chip Bennett]

No, thanks. I've gone down this rabbit hole about as far as I care to do so
at this point. The presentation-vs-functionality principle is very
well-established at this point. There will always be room for compromise on
interpretation and implementation, but from my perspective, there is
overwhelming support for the underlying presentation-vs-functionality
principle.

The review queue currently stands at 102 tickets. Working to reduce that
number would be a far better use of our time, than continuing to argue a
fundamental principle in the guidelines.


On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <
philip at frumph.net> wrote:

>   I spend a lot of time in the forums.  Quite a lot, not ESMI lot, but
> quite a lot.  So please don’t use that as a reference.
>
> Not a single forum post I have seen that discusses the difficulty of
> moving from one theme to another in the perspective that was too difficult
> for the end user.   Most often it was ‘this plugin does not work properly
> in this theme’.
>
> Please, again ... show me a ‘real issue’ that has been made on it, any at
> all – by any user.
>
>
>
>
>
>  *From:* Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:06 AM
> *To:* Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers.<theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin territory?
>
>  Spend any amount of time in WordPress support forums - the official
> forums, StackExchange, wherever - and you will perhaps gain a different
> perspective.
>
> If it weren't a real issue, then content such as the following wouldn't be
> nearly so popular:
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=wordpress+things+to+do+when+switching+themes
>
> You may disagree with the extent or severity, but user experience when
> switching Themes is a real issue.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <
> philip at frumph.net> wrote:
>
>> Do you have any facts supporting the claim of end users having a
>> difficult time when switching themes?
>>
>> Most users who switch themes often do it within the first week of having
>> a blog, to find one they really like, in my opinion - and haven't
>> necessarily gotten into too much with their themes to even care.
>>
>> So, yeah .. back up what you're saying with facts please.
>>
>> A link to a post of some user anywhere that has had trouble switching
>> themes from one to another that couldn't move over data.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Dane Morgan
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:43 AM
>> To: theme-reviewers at lists.**wordpress.org<theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin territory?
>>
>>  On 2013-07-16 00:22, Fränk Klein wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:54:33 -0500, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>
>>> Authors that offer this as an optional feature via Theme Options
>>>> should not be allowed to include them with their Themes! Why?
>>>>
>>>> I really don't see the reason to ban this from Themes. Recommend,
>>>> sure, let's do that, but to say no, you cannot, is just wrong :)
>>>>
>>>> Excluding this from Themes (*in case that author does not fork*
>>>> *into a plugin*) will "break" the Theme and that user experience we
>>>> talked about will be a terrible one. Not to mention the author.
>>>>
>>>> So in this case it's fine to do that because that's the guideline
>>>> but it is not if the same user decides to switch the Theme and
>>>> loses their features. Sorry I don't buy that.
>>>>
>>> You keep saying that removing these features from a theme will result in
>> a terrible user experience, but you deny that the removal that occurs
>> when users switch themes will be a terrible user experience. You can't
>> have it both ways.
>>
>> If the loss is traumatic, it's traumatic and we must mitigate it by
>> making sure no more users are subjected to it by prohibiting the practice.
>>
>> If it is not traumatic, then good sense and best practices demands the
>> separation of content and presentation and we need to nail that down.
>>
>> But I wonder why, given that this is actually *already in* the
>> guidelines (
>> http://make.wordpress.org/**themes/guidelines/guidelines-**
>> plugin-territory/<http://make.wordpress.org/themes/guidelines/guidelines-plugin-territory/>
>> ) as *must not* for all of the items on your proposed list, does this
>> conversation seem to take place as though this were a new proposal and
>> not already the requirement?
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>>
>
>
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