[theme-reviewers] Tags and description.

Chip Bennett chip at chipbennett.net
Fri Aug 23 17:49:59 UTC 2013 

Can I ask why declaring support for WooCommerce (or any other commercial
Plugin, such as any other commercial e-commerce Plugin, or Gravity Forms,
or whatever) would not be acceptable? I think if the following are true,
that should be sufficient:

1) The Plugin for which support is declared is GPL/compatible
2) Plugin support is declared in an approved/standardized manner, such
as *add_theme_support(
'plugin-name' )*
3) The Plugin keyword conforms to an approved convention, such as "*
plugin-support-{plugin}*" (note: "bbpress" and "buddypress" could be
converted to "plugin-support-bbpress" and "plugin-support-buddypress")

I see this as a win-win for developers and for end users. Simply using a
"e-commerce" tag probably isn't all that helpful, because more than likely,
users will already have an e-commerce Plugin solution in mind, and will be
looking for Themes that integrate support for their chosen Plugin,
explicitly.

The biggest issue here is scope/implementation on WPORG's end. But perhaps
some of this could be automated, rather than all hard-coded in the WPORG
franken-code.


On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:

> @Ulrich e-commerce is fine, WooCommerce is not. None of us here have
> final saying in any of this and all can speak there minds. All I said was
> from
> WPORG point of view, not mine :)
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:16 AM, Ulrich Pogson <grapplerulrich at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> @Emil Who makes the final decision? So is this discussion has no point
>> because we cannot influence anything?
>>
>>
>> On 23 August 2013 09:00, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>
>>> :-)
>>> On Aug 23, 2013 1:45 AM, "Srikanth Koneru" <tskk79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> +1 to Emil, just don't put "fluid grid system" in the definition of
>>>> responsive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Absolute no to WooCommerce or any other commercial site. This is the
>>>>> policy that was laid before us. I for one will keep that. Responsive and
>>>>> Accessibility are in, let us pass that. No surveys, we will not carry this
>>>>> more than we already did. I dislike long discussion over nothing. Community
>>>>> was involved, provided with the chance to talk, that will wrap this up. And
>>>>> note that it is not up to us, we don't hold the final word B-)
>>>>>  On Aug 23, 2013 1:23 AM, "myazalea" <myazalea at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Big no to a woocommerce tag since its commercial and would be
>>>>>> favoring it over other plugins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yes to some sort of ecommerce or shop tag
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Skickat från min Samsung Mobil
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------- Originalmeddelande --------
>>>>>> Från: Ulrich Pogson <grapplerulrich at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Datum: 23-08-2013 8:17 (GMT+01:00)
>>>>>> Till: "Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers." <
>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>>>>>> Rubrik: Re: [theme-reviewers] Tags and description.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am more for just "Responsive" because if I had to get examples this
>>>>>> is what comes to mind first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Responsive: TwentyTwelve
>>>>>> Mobile-Optimized: Jetpack Mobile Theme
>>>>>> Mobile: WPTouch <http://wordpress.org/plugins/wptouch/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The solutions for "Mobile-Optimized" and "Mobile" are plugins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As we have "buddypress" tag there should be a place "bbpress" and
>>>>>> even "woocommerce" also.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think a survey would not be bad so that we can track the responses
>>>>>> properly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have created something. Would love some feedback.
>>>>>> http://grapplerulrich.polldaddy.com/s/theme-tag-servey
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23 August 2013 06:37, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Understood, I wasn't aware. And yes for above mobile. Accessibility
>>>>>>> is on the list too. I think.
>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 2013 11:35 PM, "Josh Pollock" <jpollock412 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> @justin agreed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We ned to think about more than just mobile/responsive/etc tags.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What about tags based one end purpose, how do we feel about
>>>>>>>> reviewing those? For instance theme forest has these top level categories
>>>>>>>> for their WordPress themes: Blog/ magazine, creative, corporate, retail,
>>>>>>>> technology, nonprofit, entertainment, miscellaneous, mobile, buddypress,
>>>>>>>> and ecommerce. Could we do tags like that? What about a CMS tag?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> @emil - There is no guarantee that there will be new tags. This
>>>>>>>> process is very preliminary. But if a useful set of tags can be generated
>>>>>>>> by the THX38 project, then a new search filtering system based on those
>>>>>>>> tags will have a good shot at being implemented.
>>>>>>>> I'm trying to take some initiative to bring the theme review team's
>>>>>>>> thoughts on tags back to the THX38 team because I'm the only theme reviewer
>>>>>>>> that was present for the first THX38 meeting and a lot of ideas for new
>>>>>>>> tags were thrown around, which made me worry about how we were going to
>>>>>>>> review them. Basically, I'd rather say, "this is what the theme review team
>>>>>>>> discussion resulted in", then say, "as one of the theme reviewers this is
>>>>>>>> what I think."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Justin Tadlock <
>>>>>>>> justin at justintadlock.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  I agree with Chip that one tag would be better for end users.
>>>>>>>>> However, I also think we need to propose multiple tags to whoever is in
>>>>>>>>> charge of this.  So, having a list of potential tags with their definitions
>>>>>>>>> is what we should put together.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On that note, I've never had a user ask for an "adaptive" theme.
>>>>>>>>> It's mostly "responsive."  But, "mobile-ready" and "mobile-first" are terms
>>>>>>>>> that are also thrown around a bit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, I dislike the phrase "fluid grid system" when referring to
>>>>>>>>> responsive design.  Maybe something along the lines of "a fluid layout that
>>>>>>>>> responds to screen size."  Anyway, I'm just nit-picking words here.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 8/22/2013 10:52 PM, Josh Pollock wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> @chip- I think there is a good chance of a lot of new tags being
>>>>>>>>> added. Everyone agrees we need to be able to filter search results based on
>>>>>>>>> tags and the current set of tags doesn't do it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  What does it hurt to create a list of tag and definitions that
>>>>>>>>> the theme review team thinks would be useful and we could review fairly?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  I think it would be better if we brainstormed a list without any
>>>>>>>>> premptive doomsaying, so I can take it back to the THX38 meeting as the
>>>>>>>>> theme review teams ideas on new tags, instead of just bringing own
>>>>>>>>> ideas.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 22, 2013, Chip Bennett wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My main problem with that is that it's still adding three tags
>>>>>>>>>> where currently none exist. I just don't see that flying with the
>>>>>>>>>> powers-that-be. I think our best bet of getting *any* tags added is to keep
>>>>>>>>>> to a single tag.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  IMHO, the tag list could probably stand for a bit of an
>>>>>>>>>> overhaul - but that would be a bigger discussion than this one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Josh Pollock <
>>>>>>>>>> jpollock412 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How about this:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Responsive: "A theme with a layout that employs a fluid grid
>>>>>>>>>> system that changes in response to screen size."
>>>>>>>>>> Mobile-Optimized: "A theme that adjusts its layout, reduces the
>>>>>>>>>> sizes of its media elements and otherwise improves the page load time and
>>>>>>>>>> user experience for mobile."
>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: "A Theme that is designed to be used only on mobile
>>>>>>>>>> devices."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Notice I left adaptive off of the list, and I'm open to leaving
>>>>>>>>>> mobile off too if its not needed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> mobile-responsive and that includes both?
>>>>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 2013 5:46 PM, "Emil Uzelac" <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whatever is better. :-)
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 5:44 PM, "Chip Bennett" <chip at chipbennett.net>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Remember: those tags are, primarily, for *users* rather than for
>>>>>>>>>> developers. To the end user: what's the tangible difference between
>>>>>>>>>> "responsive" and "adaptive"? In this case, "end user" could be both the
>>>>>>>>>> site owner (the one who chooses and installs the Theme) or the site visitor
>>>>>>>>>> (who would view the website via devices with various screen sizes).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Do a developer, I agree 100% that the two terms have tangible,
>>>>>>>>>> meaningful differences.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  I'm just struggling to see how a user would see any difference
>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever. In both cases, the Theme is designed to work on devices with
>>>>>>>>>> variously small screen sizes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Josh Pollock <
>>>>>>>>>> jpollock412 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I agree and disagree with Chip. I agree we need to find the
>>>>>>>>>> definition that is most useful to end users and two tags with the same
>>>>>>>>>> definition is probably confusing. The problem is some end users are more
>>>>>>>>>> sophisticated than others. Some know what responsive means, some don't.
>>>>>>>>>> That said, we shouldn't equate the two, because they are different. GIve me
>>>>>>>>>> a little time and I will propose some new definitions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  @Ulrich We can't just add tags to the guidelines. They need to
>>>>>>>>>> be supported by core. As part of the THX38 project this will most likely
>>>>>>>>>> happening. I'm hoping to go to the next THX38 meeting with a list of tags
>>>>>>>>>> that we, as theme reviewers, want added and feel like we can review
>>>>>>>>>> properly.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Chip Bennett <
>>>>>>>>>> chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm one of those people who doesn't know the difference between
>>>>>>>>>> "responsive" and "adaptive". Well, until just now, because I
>>>>>>>>>> googled it<http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/web-designer/what-is-the-difference-between-responsive-vs-adaptive-web-design/>.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  The TL;DR of that article:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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