[wp-hackers] Improving the mailing list. (Was Auto Update Plugins)
wordpress at santosj.name
Mon Feb 23 01:48:44 GMT 2009
Oh yeah, I forgot my point in my last reply . As seen from past
threads and experience, discussions on standards for this mailing list
and wp-testers has gone no where . There is no moderator , which
would be a requirement for any restrictions or rules . The arguments
for and against having one has already been discussed with no results. I
can't believe this topic happened again .
So generally, improving the mailing list thread is again, another
pointless thread, because no one is going to change and the mailing list
isn't going to change . I'm an asshole, I'm fine with that, so I'm
going to continue replying to pointless threads with pointless emails
. Even if I don't kill the thread, it is somewhat fun for me.
I look forward to replying in kind when this thread topic resurfaces in
6 to 12 months . See you then. Just expect me to be kicking kittens
 and burn bridges  when it does. Oh yeah, for the record, I think
it was about 12 to 14 months when this last topic came up .
In conclusion, the real work is done on Trac. If you want patches
committed, you go and whine or complain or if the core team didn't
realize, inform them on IRC. I have, historically, seen very little
actual work come out of discussions on wp-hackers. I do not expect that
to change. It is still very interesting to see everyone bicker thinking
that something will be done, or in the rare instance that someone steps
forward and makes a difference, it will most likely be done on Trac.
 I usually get caught up in the journey that I forget the destination.
 It is easier to do nothing and discuss doing something than stepping
forward and saying, "This is what I've done, what do you think?" Sadly,
this is what Peter was getting at and the guidelines may work for a
short, if at all, but new people won't know and the same discussion will
be had over again. However, most discussions, "This is what I've done,"
are on Trac and critique there and approved there (or IRC).
 Not many read past discussions, there is just too much and it would
take far to long. I've often thought of creating a summary, but after
attempting it, 1) I realized it was a full time job, 2) that I sucked at
writing, 3) Putting discussions in my own words, when I don't care or
know what people are talking about or why is extremely difficult. Even
then, reading the PHP Internal Summaries is still very time consuming
 From what I can remember, Matt didn't want to hinder creativity on
the list and move to a dicatorship. Basically, with a moderator, in some
instances, those with Karma have a higher standing with said moderator
than some new guy who might have great new ideas, but gets shot down by
those with Karma and backed up by the moderator. Even without a
moderator, those with Karma do have a greater standing with arguments
than those who are new or unknown. People shouldn't think that since
they don't contribute, they don't have a voice about issues. People who
do contribute shouldn't consider themselves better or their opinions
better than those who don't. If it appears that I do that, then it is
only because I'm an asshole and not that I think your opinion is any less.
 It seems that the hot topics resurface from time to time. There was
a discussion on adding inline documentation to WordPress at least 5
times before something was actually done to fit it. So I'm not saying
that nothing ever comes out of these discussions, because there are
productive threads where action is taken. However, at some point, people
have to stop talking and actually do shit. I do seem to contradict
myself, the point is to either put forth an issue and call for action
and step back, if you don't have the ability to take action or don't
have the time (people have lives and a ton of over stuff on their plate,
someone might be willing to take action, but not have the time, so I
guess reminding them is okay). "+1" replies is okay, you agree, but
please do so silently. If I see a thread with 20 to 30 replies, then I
consider that thread taken care of without any need for me to get to
involved. I'll be more likely to take action, if I see something that I
worked with or am interested in or a thread isn't getting enough
replies. It doesn't help when a thread gets 50 replies that's saying the
same thing from different people. If someone like me or God forbid, DD32
(for the umpteenth time) jumped in and explained the situation, it
probably would have quickly turned into an argument. You can reference
the 3+ tickets of people who disagree with DD32, even after he explained
why and gave solutions.
 I think I'll stop with the pointless sarcasm, because it isn't
helping and just extends the pointless threads. Well, I can't I'll
continue this. I tend to forget and it is my nature to enhance
conflicts. Well, it also depends on how much time I have outside of work
and current projects.
 At least not without a full time moderator, which I can hear the
screams now, both at the initial employment and after people realize it
was a bad idea.
 Seems to be about when the memory lapses of the past thread or some
new person comes in with the issue. The exact time is difficult to
predict, because it is based on a problem existing. Matt created a FAQ
on common questions, and yet questions are still asked from time to time
that are details on that list.
 I would never actually harm the little, cute, warm, soft, lovable
little baskets full of joy.
 There are probably many places where they'll laugh me out the door,
if I ever attempted to apply at their company. Automattic, is only one
of them (actually, they didn't laugh).
 Might have been September - November 2007. I think it was a
misunderstanding over PHP5. For the record, I didn't want WordPress to
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