[wp-hackers] Two new, long-overdue plugins to make your wordpress life a little easier...

Mon Oct 31 03:27:50 UTC 2011

I doubt that this wasn't an intentional spur, and probably one worth 
discussing, however:

More importantly than absolute vs relative is that many people don't 
want to write HTML at all. Which although there is a visual editor for 
that, is a near requirement to understand at least the basics of HTML. 
This is a limitation upon the number of people who are willing to even 
learn how to use WordPress. Media by at large is a weak point because of 
the complexities of doing video, audio and photography. This can all be 
handled along side WordPress that doesn't require changes to the core 
editor that is very much defined and should remain unchanged.

There is one crowd that is more towards just writing HTML, there is 
entirely and much larger crowd that doesn't even know HTML. Thus using 
WordPress is a beginning step to learning and why having both the visual 
and code editor is important. WordPress has been user-centric and not 
developer centric which is why it has been popular. However WordPress 
lacks a lot of the object oriented abstraction that frameworks (designed 
by developers) have, that can make it frustrating to work with at times, 
especially in a highly instable environment such as doing development. 
Yet the very flexibility of frameworks such as Django, making it 
impossible to maintain any project outside a single use very well 
because the models are always changing, and are just plain annoying.

The fact that there needs to be a search and replace with the same 
length of the domain is a workaround, and while it is a solution, and 
probably the best one considering the most common environment and use of 
WordPress and emphasis on portability of posts and you don't know where 
they well be read. This so super important. Yet it still isn't an 
entirely good solution either, and turns many developers away because of 
the "uncomfortable" experience.

I'm really surprised markup languages haven't become more common 
actually, like Wikipedia uses. I feel more comfortable teaching someone 
who doesn't know HTML a markup language than HTML because although HTML 
is very simple, it's also really easy to mess up.

On 10/30/2011 02:59 PM, Marcus Pope wrote:
> Greetings all, just wanted to propose another option for exploring the technical distinctions between root relative and absolute urls.  Since it has been made clear here that a lot of people care passionately about each side of the coin, and that a lot of people don't care about the coin at all, I propose that we move the discussion to a different forum.  You don't have to participate, and if you want to continue participating here then you are of course at liberty to do so.  However for the sake of those who are sick of reading through novels of a discussion they don't care about (a good portion of wp-users) would everyone mind moving the discourse to here?
>
>      http://groups.google.com/group/absolute-vs-relative/
>
> It will allow us to discuss details about the two perspectives without hijacking this mailing list, which I admit I started.  Had I known it would get this out of hand I would have started with a different forum to begin with.
>
> Mike, I would really appreciate your input there.  I know you have a deep understanding of the wordpress core, and I think you would be the best candidate for pointing out the problems with root relative urls.  If at the very least, I would like to discuss our last topic as I have discovered how wordpress does actually change content urls in addition to system urls.  I'd like to hear your perspective on this and what implications it has on converting to root relative urls that do not need the change.  I also sent you an email via zed1.com, with my personal email address if you'd rather discuss via direct email.
>
> Otto, I would appreciate hearing your input too. I know we got out of hand on Friday and I truly am sorry that happened.  I'm sure you will see a different side of me in further discussions and would like to hear your feedback as one of the few avid supporters that spoke up yesterday.
>
> To everyone else, again I'm sorry to have opened Pandora's box, in addition to heating up the dial in my retorts.  As a pragmatist, I'm attempting to restore peace on this forum with a solution that should solve everyone's needs.
>
> Thanks again for everyone's support, input and honest criticism.  I have learned a lot about the group and wordpress in just a few days and I promise to be as supportive as I can in the future.
>
> Btw, I have updated the two plugins to support<  php5.3 installations.  So if you were experiencing activation problems before they should be resolved entirely in the latest version.  (it still shows v1.0, a mistake on my part for not updating the right field, but it is updated I promise :D)
>
> Best Regards,
> Marcus Pope.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wp-hackers-bounces at lists.automattic.com [mailto:wp-hackers-bounces at lists.automattic.com] On Behalf Of Mike Little
> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:06 PM
> To: wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com
> Subject: Re: [wp-hackers] Two new, long-overdue plugins to make your wordpress life a little easier...
>
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 20:10, Andrew Gray<andrew at graymerica.com>  wrote:
>
>> I have had this argument on this list many times and in person with WP
>> core people.   I was told to my face, that they would never remove the
>> URLs from the content.
>>
>> Here are my opinions.
>>
>> 1.  Everyone who is against relative URLs is just being obstinate
>> because they have defended their position so many times.
>>
>>
> That's a sweeping, nearly insulting, statement. People continue to defend positions they believe in.
>
>
>
>> 2.  People who say you just download the DB and change it have never
>> worked with a major client or done any enterprise development with WP.
>> Some of my clients DBs are over 4GB.  It is a ton of fun to
>> reupload that.   Change the url via SQL breaks all the serialized
>> arrays with urls in it.
>>
>>
> Also a sweeping statement. Perhaps more accurate might be to say "people who have not had the problems you have experienced"
>
> I have never had a serialized array break because of the precautions I take.
>
> Here's a serious question: if a live site has grown to have 4GB of content, why would you ever be uploading it back to live? Even in the circumstances where I might take a copy of the live site to test something, I cannot foresee the circumstances under which I would need to then upload that data back to live.
>
>
>
>
>
>> 3.  The development>  staging>  production and review process is on of
>> the reasons I have started using Code Ignighter for my bigger
>> projects.   I had too many middle of the night deployment issues with
>> for my clients that require zero downtime.
>>
>>
> Great. Use the best tools that do the job for you. That's what I do.
>
>
>
> 4. The processor cycle argument is silly.   CPU is so cheap today.
> I love wordpress and thank everyone for being helpful on this list,
>> but I can not understand why we can't just have the code use the
>> SITE_URL and let it be stored in one place.    Make it a config
>> value.  If you do not want to use it, you can ignore
>>
>>
> "If you do not want to use it, you can ignore" - If there is an option, the code would have an additional check each and every time it came to output content.
>
>
>
>> The objections are just so weak, I assume it is just pride at this
>> point.
>>
>>
> More silly statements. Your opinion is simply your opinion. One might say the reason you don't see the other side of the argument is pride.
>
>
> Mike
> --
> Mike Little
> http://zed1.com/
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