[wp-hackers] Improving the mailing list. (Was Auto Update Plugins)

[Jacob Santos]

Oh yeah, I forgot my point in my last reply [1]. As seen from past 
threads and experience, discussions on standards for this mailing list 
and wp-testers has gone no where [2]. There is no moderator [3], which 
would be a requirement for any restrictions or rules [4]. The arguments 
for and against having one has already been discussed with no results. I 
can't believe this topic happened again [5].

So generally, improving the mailing list thread is again, another 
pointless thread, because no one is going to change and the mailing list 
isn't going to change [7]. I'm an asshole, I'm fine with that, so I'm 
going to continue replying to pointless threads with pointless emails 
[6]. Even if I don't kill the thread, it is somewhat fun for me.

I look forward to replying in kind when this thread topic resurfaces in 
6 to 12 months [8]. See you then. Just expect me to be kicking kittens 
[9] and burn bridges [10] when it does. Oh yeah, for the record, I think 
it was about 12 to 14 months when this last topic came up [11].

In conclusion, the real work is done on Trac. If you want patches 
committed, you go and whine or complain or if the core team didn't 
realize, inform them on IRC. I have, historically, seen very little 
actual work come out of discussions on wp-hackers. I do not expect that 
to change. It is still very interesting to see everyone bicker thinking 
that something will be done, or in the rare instance that someone steps 
forward and makes a difference, it will most likely be done on Trac.

Jacob Santos

[1] I usually get caught up in the journey that I forget the destination.

[2] It is easier to do nothing and discuss doing something than stepping 
forward and saying, "This is what I've done, what do you think?" Sadly, 
this is what Peter was getting at and the guidelines may work for a 
short, if at all, but new people won't know and the same discussion will 
be had over again. However, most discussions, "This is what I've done," 
are on Trac and critique there and approved there (or IRC).

[3] Not many read past discussions, there is just too much and it would 
take far to long. I've often thought of creating a summary, but after 
attempting it, 1) I realized it was a full time job, 2) that I sucked at 
writing, 3) Putting discussions in my own words, when I don't care or 
know what people are talking about or why is extremely difficult. Even 
then, reading the PHP Internal Summaries is still very time consuming 
process.

[4] From what I can remember, Matt didn't want to hinder creativity on 
the list and move to a dicatorship. Basically, with a moderator, in some 
instances, those with Karma have a higher standing with said moderator 
than some new guy who might have great new ideas, but gets shot down by 
those with Karma and backed up by the moderator. Even without a 
moderator, those with Karma do have a greater standing with arguments 
than those who are new or unknown. People shouldn't think that since 
they don't contribute, they don't have a voice about issues. People who 
do contribute shouldn't consider themselves better or their opinions 
better than those who don't. If it appears that I do that, then it is 
only because I'm an asshole and not that I think your opinion is any less.

[5] It seems that the hot topics resurface from time to time. There was 
a discussion on adding inline documentation to WordPress at least 5 
times before something was actually done to fit it. So I'm not saying 
that nothing ever comes out of these discussions, because there are 
productive threads where action is taken. However, at some point, people 
have to stop talking and actually do shit. I do seem to contradict 
myself, the point is to either put forth an issue and call for action 
and step back, if you don't have the ability to take action or don't 
have the time (people have lives and a ton of over stuff on their plate, 
someone might be willing to take action, but not have the time, so I 
guess reminding them is okay). "+1" replies is okay, you agree, but 
please do so silently. If I see a thread with 20 to 30 replies, then I 
consider that thread taken care of without any need for me to get to 
involved. I'll be more likely to take action, if I see something that I 
worked with or am interested in or a thread isn't getting enough 
replies. It doesn't help when a thread gets 50 replies that's saying the 
same thing from different people. If someone like me or God forbid, DD32 
(for the umpteenth time) jumped in and explained the situation, it 
probably would have quickly turned into an argument. You can reference 
the 3+ tickets of people who disagree with DD32, even after he explained 
why and gave solutions.

[6] I think I'll stop with the pointless sarcasm, because it isn't 
helping and just extends the pointless threads. Well, I can't I'll 
continue this. I tend to forget and it is my nature to enhance 
conflicts. Well, it also depends on how much time I have outside of work 
and current projects.

[7] At least not without a full time moderator, which I can hear the 
screams now, both at the initial employment and after people realize it 
was a bad idea.

[8] Seems to be about when the memory lapses of the past thread or some 
new person comes in with the issue. The exact time is difficult to 
predict, because it is based on a problem existing. Matt created a FAQ 
on common questions, and yet questions are still asked from time to time 
that are details on that list.

[9] I would never actually harm the little, cute, warm, soft, lovable 
little baskets full of joy.

[10] There are probably many places where they'll laugh me out the door, 
if I ever attempted to apply at their company. Automattic, is only one 
of them (actually, they didn't laugh).

[11] Might have been September - November 2007. I think it was a 
misunderstanding over PHP5. For the record, I didn't want WordPress to 
switch PHP5.