[theme-reviewers] Why can't theme authors have a second version of a theme?

Sat Sep 27 03:13:41 UTC 2014

I am sorry bud, I can't buy that. Please see
http://www.studiopress.com/news/updating-genesis-2-0.htm and tell me that
Genesis doesn't have millions as well ;)

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:11 PM, Trent Lapinski <trent at cyberchimps.com>
wrote:

> @Zulf - Millions of people have launched websites based on Responsive, and
> used custom CSS through either plugins, or child themes.
>
> It is the “framework” of possibly tens of millions of websites.
>
> I would prefer to not break the trust of every user who has ever
> downloaded one of my themes.
>
> --Trent Lapinski
> =============
> CEO of CyberChimps Inc.
> http://CyberChimps.com
> Twitter @trentlapinski
> Skype: mobiletrent
>
> On Sep 26, 2014, at 8:08 PM, Zulfikar Nore <zulfikarnore at live.com> wrote:
>
> Have you considered providing a setting migration option between the two
> themes?
>
> looking at the list of breakages in ticket (thank you) there seem to be no
> major "break" of site other than custom settings? Visually all looks good
> on my install.
>
> Zulf
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:04:58 +0700
> From: david at shellcreeper.com
> To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
> Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Why can't theme authors have a second
> version of a theme?
>
> I agree with Otto 100%.
> the name is not acceptable.
> -- David.
> On Sep 27, 2014 9:57 AM, "Emil Uzelac" <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>
> We have been "forced" into vote and so far two admins are against. Tammie,
> when time allows please add few words so that we can conclude this.
>
> Here is an example how Bruce handled the switch:
> https://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/7656 note that he also stand
> behind a large user base.
>
> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 9:49 PM, Zulfikar Nore <zulfikarnore at live.com>
> wrote:
>
> Can we get a list of what would break listed in ticket please?
>
> Installed Responsive, downloaded Responsive II and renamed to Responsive
> with version set to the latest version. Deleted the original Responsive
> from the site and replaced with renamed one on viewing the site and admin
> area the only "breaking" I can see is the new layout.
>
> Are we classing the loss of the old Responsive layout as "breaking" sites?
>
>
> Zulf
>
> ------------------------------
> From: trent at cyberchimps.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 19:43:52 -0700
> To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
> Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Why can't theme authors have a second
> version of a theme?
>
>
> Cais,
>
> Slippery slope argument does not apply here. I am not asking to use
> someone else’s theme name. I am asking to use my own name.
>
> Again, I see no logical reason why a theme author cannot release multiple
> themes under the same brand.
>
> If the issue is using a number or Roman numerals, then can I use a letter
> or letters instead?
>
> "Responsive HD" for example?
>
> If you admins are going to enforce ridiculous rules like this, then you
> need to provide us with a solution that doesn’t result in breaking millions
> of peoples websites, or forcing me to release the next version of my
> product under a brand name no one will be able to identify.
>
> Someone here needs to purpose an actual solution that is acceptable.
> Otherwise we’re just going in circles here.
>
> I just need someway to communicate that this is the new version of the
> Responsive theme without breaking millions of websites.
>
> My team and I have debated this, and there is no easy solution. We could
> build a plugin to change the update API and switch it to Github, we could
> do a number of things to try and provide backwards compatibility, but all
> of those “solutions” are compromises that will bloat our code, and force us
> to release an inferior product.
>
> --Trent Lapinski
> =============
> CEO of CyberChimps Inc.
> http://CyberChimps.com <http://cyberchimps.com/>
> Twitter @trentlapinski
> Skype: mobiletrent
>
> On Sep 26, 2014, at 7:30 PM, Edward Caissie <edward.caissie at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> TL;DR: The idea of a version number in the theme name as not acceptable is
> a valid point.
>
> Do we really need to write a new guideline (or re-write the existing) to
> make this more clear. I can go do that right now if necessary but I think
> some common sense should be applied in much the same way that the plugin
> repository does not allow for it. Granted the two repositories have their
> differences but there is no reason not to follow common sense and shared
> ideals.
>
> I can appreciate your concern about potentially breaking some (all?) sites
> if this theme was released as an update to its predecessor but simply put
> if it is that vastly different and there is no backward compatibility then
> it really is a new theme and should have its own name. Let its code; its
> layout; and, its poetry stand on its own merits.
>
> I'm not looking to carry this argument on wether or not the theme name is
> valid ... in this case I do not consider it to be acceptable.
>
> We're not stopping you from using your "brand" ... by all means feel free
> to release a theme named Responsive II wherever you would like. We're just
> saying it's not an acceptable name in the WordPress Theme repository.
> Nothing against CyberChimps, its actually something that I would like to
> view as a benefit for your "brand" as well as other theme author's "brand"
> names. We should not be allowing most anything similarly named to another
> theme when used, as in this specific example, with the Responsive name
> foremost. We're not telling you no specifically. We're telling everyone,
> "No one can submit a theme named Responsive II", because quite simply if we
> allow you to submit Responsive II we would be setting a precedent to allow
> someone else to submit Responsive III ... and that would be a different
> rabbit hole again.
>
> Edward Caissie
> aka Cais.
>
> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:14 PM, Trent Lapinski<trent at cyberchimps.com>
> wrote:
>
> Daniel,
>
> Why don’t the admins “let it go” and let me name my own products with my
> own brands. :-p
>
> --Trent Lapinski
> =============
> CEO of CyberChimps Inc.
> http://CyberChimps.com <http://cyberchimps.com/>
> Twitter @trentlapinski
> Skype: mobiletrent
>
> On Sep 26, 2014, at 7:12 PM, Daniel Fenn <danielx386 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> After watching this fight I felt like telling trent to listen to the
> song "let it go" from the movie frozen :)
>
> *Sits back and watches*
>
> On 9/27/14, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>
> probably the last time where TRT is turned into (politely said) brothel!
>
> On Friday, September 26, 2014, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <philip at frumph.net
> >
> wrote:
>
>  Just going to giggle at this., and not cause any waves about it.
>
> *From:* Otto <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','otto at ottodestruct.com');>
> *Sent:* Friday, September 26, 2014 5:54 PM
> *To:* Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers.
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org');>
> *Subject:* Re: [theme-reviewers] Why can't theme authors have a second
> version of a theme?
>
>  On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Trent Lapinski <trent at cyberchimps.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','trent at cyberchimps.com');>> wrote:
>
> The TRT has been over ruled by the WordPress Foundation, Matt himself,
> and has been greatly influenced by Automattic and Audrey Capitol.
>
>
> Trent, let's be a bit more civil than that. The Foundation, Matt, and
> those at Automattic have not done any such thing.
>
> If Emil and the other admins want to change the rules, then nobody's
> going
> to stop them. I personally think it's a bad idea, and I'll say so, but
> I'm
> not going to use any form of veto power for something that is ultimately
> so
> silly.
>
> When I want the rules to be changed, then I have to email those admins
> and
> convince them. Done it before.
>
> The only time I've ever been really adamant about anything with regards
> to
> the review guidelines was on the security aspects. No using eval and
> base64
> and such. Things like that. Those are pretty obvious and sell themselves,
> really. Those security things are the *only* thing I've ever pushed into
> the guidelines (via theme-check) unilaterally.
>
> My point was that talking to Emil and the other admins about it, in
> ticket, is far from pointless. They do have the power to give you an
> exception. They do have the power to change the guidelines. They do have
> the power to ignore any or all of the guidelines based on their best
> judgment. That's why they're the admins. I'm not going to stop them, nor
> is
> the Foundation, or Automattic. As for Matt, he likely doesn't have an
> opinion on the matter either way and would probably have no issue with
> it.
>
> There is no need to be quite so extremely confrontational like this every
> time you run into a minor disagreement. You don't need to convince me,
> but
> you probably could convince them.
>
> -Otto
>
>
> ------------------------------
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>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Daniel Fenn
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