[theme-reviewers] Question: Someone Want to Take Benefit From a'Top Reviewer of the Month'.

Trent Lapinski trent at cyberchimps.com
Wed Jan 29 21:41:19 UTC 2014 

"Otto has said he won't allow bribing”

Thank goodness. Even so, how is that even policeable?

How do we know the contest winners aren’t making back table deals to get themes featured?

Why is there no criteria for what themes can and can’t be featured?

--Trent Lapinski
=============
CEO of CyberChimps Inc.
http://CyberChimps.com
Twitter @trentlapinski


On Jan 29, 2014, at 1:31 PM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Are we allowed to bribe the winner of the contest whenever the admins decide to honor it?
> 
> Otto has said he won't allow bribing
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 2:58 AM, Trent Lapinski <trent at cyberchimps.com> wrote:
> If it isn’t a matter of resources, then why hasn’t the contest been maintained in nearly 3 months?
> 
> Chip you are absolutely correct I’m upset that Responsive was removed from the featured list, by far the most popular theme on WordPress.org, and I was told to pay my employees to start doing theme reviews to win a contest that we can’t win because all of the tickets are being assigned before my team can get to them. I’m pretty sure anyone else in my position would be upset, and feel extorted by this situation as well.
> 
> Apparently having the most popular theme on .org means nothing, and the 3 years of contributions my team has provided to .org are also now meaningless.
> 
> My team was already doing reviews regularly for nearly 3 years now under their own accounts because we were contributing to the community as individuals. We have pooled all of our employees into a single account now to do reviews thanks to the contest, and even so we can’t get as many tickets as we would like so we have no chance at winning the contest.
> 
> In essence, I’m being told I have to pay to have my theme featured now. Which if that’s the case, who should I make the check out to?
> 
> I suppose my final question is: 
> 
> Are we allowed to bribe the winner of the contest whenever the admins decide to honor it?
> 
> Again this seems ridiculous, and unfair to me, but if the admins are going to allow other theme shops to bribe the winners then I will unfortunately have to start doing the same.
> 
> I will happily double any offers anyone else is receiving if the admins are now allowing bribing. 
> 
> P.S. I can’t even believe we’re having this conversation. This feels horribly wrong to me.
> 
> --Trent Lapinski
> =============
> CEO of CyberChimps Inc.
> http://CyberChimps.com
> Twitter @trentlapinski
> 
> On Jan 29, 2014, at 12:56 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:
> 
>> Honestly, it's not a matter of not having enough resources to police the program. The biggest issue right now is obviously inadequate reviews that admins have to spend a great deal of time auditing and reopening. (On average, I have to reopen about 9 out of every 10 approved Themes that I audit.)
>> 
>> Part of that is on us; we need to find better ways of providing education and tools needed to conduct reviews. But part of that is on reviewers simply not doing due diligence before resolving Themes as approved.
>> 
>> As for the success of the program itself: I disagree that it has not worked. We have increased the rate of overall Theme approval several-fold.
>> 
>> Essentially, you want to end the incentive program because Responsive was de-listed from the Featured Themes list? I'm sorry that Responsive being de-listed seemed unfair, but no Theme (other than core Themes) is *entitled* to be listed as "Featured". I never wanted to be involved with Featured Themes selection to begin with. I want to focus on seeing great new Themes reviewed and approved, and getting them into end users' hands. But the WPTRT has been tasked, in part, with helping to manage that list. The only fair way I could see to do so was to come up with a way for all reviewers to have the opportunity to select Themes.
>> 
>> As for making the process more inclusive: that will be part of the changes coming next month. But along with increased inclusiveness will come increased accountability.
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Trent Lapinski <trent at cyberchimps.com> wrote:
>> How are you guys going to police this when you can't even regularly honor the contest itself in the first place? The current featured themes were last updated in November.
>> 
>> Right now the way the contest is setup, the person or company who pays the most to do the most reviews wins. That's not a contest. That's not democracy. That's not open source.
>> 
>> Please end this contest, it's a failed experiment that isn't fair to anyone involved. CyberChimps and any other theme shop or single developer should all have an equal opportunity to be featured. Again, the best themes should be featured. If that means my themes are never featured again because others are making better themes then so be it.
>> 
>> The .org admins clearly don't have the resources, or time to police and run such a contest, and the overall concept doesn't make sense to begin with. We all knew this would be gamed, and now we're going to start banning people for doing what they were encouraged to do by the admins? How does that make any sense? 
>> 
>> -Trent
>> CEO CyberChimps Inc. 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 12:29 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Well one of those issues we can address immediately: nobody should be assigning multiple tickets at a time. Assign one ticket at a time, and post (full) review comments, before moving on to another ticket.
>>> 
>>> If it appears that anyone is attempting to game the system by hogging tickets for new Themes - at the sole discretion of the admins (and Otto, who isn't exactly known to deal with such things with kid gloves) - we will handle such gaming appropriately.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Trent Lapinski <trent at cyberchimps.com> wrote:
>>> As the owner of a theme shop (CyberChimps) being forced by the .org admins to now pay employees to do theme reviews I inherently hate that we are being forced win the contest to keep our themes featured. 
>>> 
>>> We use to do theme reviews to contribute to the community but now that we're being forced to do them to be able to afford to support our themes it feels more like extortion then a community contribution.
>>> 
>>> Responsive has had over a million downloads, and is the most people theme on .org that isn't a default theme. We were featured for some time, but were unfeatured without explanation and saw a dramatic decline in downloads, and revenue. Now we're stuck maintaining a massive theme that is no longer supporting itself, providing support and maintaining a popular theme like Responsive isn't cheap. You'd think .org would want to reward their most popular theme, instead we're having to delay the release of 2.0, and are being forced to rededicate our resources to win the review contest so we can get downloads and revenue back up so we can even continue development.
>>> 
>>> We point blank have asked .org admins what we can do to be considered for being featured again and there answer was to pay people to win the contest every month. A contest that isn't even being maintained monthly, that is being gamed by other theme shops.
>>> 
>>> What was once a community contribution has been turned into a confusing nightmare. We can't even get themes to review because other theme shops are assigning themselves everything ticket immediately. The system is absolutely being gamed, and soon the cost of entry won't even be feasible for CyberChimps, so I have no idea how anyone else is going to even have a chance.
>>> 
>>> We should be rewarding the best and most popular themes, not extorting theme shops and preventing everyone else from being featured. Theme reviews should be a community contribution and have nothing to do with featured themes.  
>>> 
>>> -Trent
>>> CEO CyberChimps Inc. 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 11:49 AM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Not possible for an individual to compete against the might of theme shops. They can have 4 guys reviewing 4 themes simultaneously.
>>>> Was this vote admin only vote? don't recall it on the list.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 1:14 AM, Edward Caissie <edward.caissie at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I was originally out-voted on not allowing "theme shops" have one account for all of their employees to use as I was concerned it would create an "unfair advantage" for them to choose a Featured Theme (and why wouldn't they choose their own?) so there is not much more I can add to this conversation except to say I agree for the most part with Otto's responses.
>>>> 
>>>> Edward Caissie
>>>> aka Cais.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <philip at frumph.net> wrote:
>>>> Could always have the random themes that display be pulled by date as well, max 1 year since last update sort of thing.
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> From: Jose Castaneda
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 11:14 AM
>>>> To: Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers.
>>>> Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Question: Someone Want to Take Benefit From a'Top Reviewer of the Month'.
>>>>  
>>>> I think the issue that arose was exploiting the system by reviewing that persons theme regardless of position in the queue of tickets.
>>>>  
>>>> At least that is my take. I received a similar email about two months back. I never responded, just deleted it. 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 11:01 AM, Rohit Tripathi <rohitink at live.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> A Very Good Point raised by Emil.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 12:52:26 -0600
>>>>> From: emil at uzelac.me
>>>>> To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Question: Someone Want to Take Benefit From a 'Top Reviewer of the Month'.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am with Chip here, paying your employee or employ someone
>>>>> is 100% the same, no difference whatsoever.
>>>>>  
>>>>> The moment we said yes to commercial Theme shops to have their
>>>>> people review tickets under a single username, is the moment we allowed
>>>>> this very thing as well. Not sure what is the problem?
>>>>>  
>>>>> Every time one of us mentions Featured Themes, entire* community jumps
>>>>> on. When we need help, only few of us replies. How come?
>>>>>  
>>>>> http://make.wordpress.org/themes/2014/01/28/time-for-a-new-team-rep/ 
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> all 3 options can be manipulated unfortunately, admin choice is fine but a bit more frequently would be nice.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:19 PM, Konrad Sroka <konrads at themekraft.com> wrote:
>>>>> Otto +10000 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Why not get rid of the featured themes sections like it is now and have a filter for 
>>>>>  
>>>>> "most downloaded" and "best rated"
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> Maybe add a filter or tag for commercially supported themes, so you know you can get professional support and stuff like that..
>>>>>  
>>>>> Or make a poll on wordpress.org twice a year and the results are the "featured" themes
>>>>>  
>>>>> Cheers, Konrad
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 29 January 2014 18:25, Rohit Tripathi <rohitink at live.com> wrote:
>>>>> I am not in favour of switching Featured themes to a Random Themes Section. Because Many themes in the repository are outdated or not fully compatible with recent versions of WP.
>>>>>  
>>>>> +1 for the Redesign of landing Page.
>>>>>  
>>>>> :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: zulfikarnore at live.com
>>>>> To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:11:33 +0000
>>>>> 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Question: Someone Want to Take Benefit From a 'Top Reviewer of the Month'.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Part of the original question asked "has this happened to anyone" (not the exact words) - the answer is yes, not once not twice but a good few times. Initial response? I responded with not part of my business plan/working model! Then followed by "mark as junk" and now that is where (if any) those emails land and deleted without a first look never mind a second.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For me the incentive scheme and having a theme featured for my hard work is only a bonus - true benefit is derived from learning code as Otto said. The real reward out of it all will be when one day I create a theme from scratch, submit, have it reviewed, approved and made live without a single issue being raised - now that is (will be) the achievement :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> So,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1) Should we be paid to review themes in order to win and get the payer's theme featured? Certainly Not!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2) Should commercial theme shops pay their employees to review for the same end in mind? Weather they get a theme featured or not they are going to pay their employee regardless. So that is their prerogative - but should they hire for the sole purpose of reviewing and getting featured? To me that is no any difference to 1 above and is a No!, but who is going to police it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Solution? Switch the "Featured themes" section to a "Random themes" section and let the system cycle though all and any theme on a given time period and everyone is a winner. Easier said than done with over 2000 themes I know :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I second and +1 the call for a redesign of the landing page. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: christine at bluelimemedia.com
>>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 08:02:39 -0800
>>>>> To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Question: Someone Want to Take Benefit From a 'Top Reviewer of the Month'.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Awesome, I'll see what I can do.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Christine Rondeau
>>>>> Bluelime Media
>>>>> www.bluelimemedia.com
>>>>> twitter: @bluelimemedia
>>>>> skype: bluelimemedia
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 7:58 AM, Otto <otto at ottodestruct.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Christine Rondeau
>>>>> <christine at bluelimemedia.com> wrote:
>>>>> > I still think that
>>>>> > rethinking the theme landing page with a better more visual design would be
>>>>> > nice.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I wholeheartedly agree. Poke your designer friends. We need a better design. :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Otto
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
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>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> -- 
>>>>>  
>>>>> i.A. Konrad Sroka
>>>>> Themekraft  UG haftungsbeschränkt 
>>>>> Beautiful Themes and Plugins for WordPress and BuddyPress 
>>>>> web - http://themekraft.com 
>>>>> mail - konrads at themekraft.com 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Höhenstrasse 55 
>>>>> D-40227 Düsseldorf 
>>>>> Germany  
>>>>> HRB 66772, Gerichtsstand Düsseldorf, deutsches Recht  
>>>>> Geschäftsführung / Managing Director: Sven Lehnert 
>>>>> USt-ID: DE282376267
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
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>>>>>  
>>>>> 
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>>>>>  
>>>>> 
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