[theme-reviewers] theme-reviewers Digest, Vol 37, Issue 85
Jon @ Planetjon
jon at planetjon.ca
Mon Jun 17 23:25:09 UTC 2013
I see where Chip is coming from and I do agree. Ultimately, that option
shouldn't be there at all; themes idealistically should bring offer nothing
but a UI with options for styling that UI, and if there is any input left
open to the user it should be nothing more than rich text content displayed
in some section of the theme.
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:58 PM, <
theme-reviewers-request at lists.wordpress.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Fwd: Plugin territory (Josh Pollock)
> 2. Re: Fwd: Plugin territory (Josh Pollock)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Josh Pollock <jpollock412 at gmail.com>
> To: theme-reviewers <theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 18:50:40 -0400
> Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Fwd: Plugin territory
> Its not instructing the user to add analytics code, its making it obvious
> to them that they can use this option to insert analytics code. By allowing
> theme options for header and footer scripts that make it clear they can be
> used for Google Analytics code or other uses, we're giving the end user an
> option. When they switch themes they can make sure that their new theme has
> these options, or turn to a plugin. I don't think you can go out on a limb
> and say that plugin is going to be better coded. Most likely it is if it
> came from the WordPress.org plugin repo, but it might have come from
> anywhere. You can't guarantee the quality of every random plugin on the
> internet.
>
> I agree a plugin is the better way to do it. But then again, I wouldn't
> use a plugin, I'd just modify the theme, which I'd obviously version
> controlled so I wouldn't loose that modification when I updated the theme,
> but weren't not talking about users like me here. We're making a valid
> option, less obvious to the end user, and I don't really see how we're
> protecting them by doing so.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>
>> No, I'm saying that a Theme option to allow the user to insert arbitrary
>> scripts or custom CSS is perfectly fine, but that a Theme *instructing* the
>> user to use that option to insert analytics code is not, because it is
>> functionally equivalent to the Theme providing an option intentionally for
>> inserting analytics code.
>>
>> We're not making their lives *more* complicated; we've making their lives
>> *less* complicated - because analytics and SEO become a matter of "set and
>> forget", regardless of what Theme is being used. (For the typical user, the
>> question isn't *if* that user will switch Themes in the future, but rather
>> *when* that user will switch Themes.) Further, I'll go out on a limb and
>> say that a Plugin intended specifically for analytics code and/or SEO is
>> going to be *better* coded, and *more* likely to be kept up-to-date, than
>> analogous options in a given Theme.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Josh Pollock <jpollock412 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Chip-
>>>
>>> Am I understanding you correctly that if a theme has an option called
>>> "add header script", that is OK, but if it has an option called "add
>>> analytics code to header" that is not OK, even though they do the exact
>>> same thing? That doesn't make sense.
>>>
>>> This requirement is making users add one more plugin to worry about
>>> updating, checking for incompatibilities with, etc. We're talking about a
>>> class of users that doesn't know to/ isin't comfortable doing something as
>>> simple as putting the tracking code in a function hooked to
>>> wp_header/footer or just cut and paste it into header.php. These aren't
>>> people who can evaluate a plugin to see if it is adding the analytics the
>>> right way or not... Why are we making their lives more complicated instead
>>> of judging the "add analytics" option the same way as the forbidden "add
>>> header script" option, which we allow as long as it is implemented properly?
>>>
>>> -Josh
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would require the text to be changed, if it says "add your analytics
>>>> code", since adding analytics code is Plugin territory.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> some are labelled "add your analytics code" and some just "add your
>>>>> header/footer scripts".
>>>>> I approved them without pointing it out as i wasn't sure of the rule.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How do you know that the end user will use them for that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> because they are used to add analytics scripts or similar to
>>>>>>> header/footer?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why would they?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (Not being sarcastic; I'm honestly asking.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> do textarea field's meant for header/footer scripts fall under
>>>>>>>>> plugin territory?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:57 PM, Chip Bennett <
>>>>>>>>> chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Themes are always required to conform to the guidelines as
>>>>>>>>>> current when the Theme is submitted. Guidelines can and do change, and
>>>>>>>>>> previous reviews can and do miss required criteria. I would note all of the
>>>>>>>>>> required issues, and hold the ticket open to allow for developer response.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:03 PM, devcorn <wp at devcorn.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was reviewing one theme and it has so many.. many things which
>>>>>>>>>>> comes under plugin territory shortcodes, SEO, download/upload... etc
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But the theme was previously approved, actually always
>>>>>>>>>>> approved... so I don't know what should I do with it. I don't want to
>>>>>>>>>>> disappoint the author , I can approve it with note to fix all these stuff
>>>>>>>>>>> in next version, but to my surprise. I downloaded and test old version and
>>>>>>>>>>> they had all of it.. so I don't know if I missed something as I joined WTRT
>>>>>>>>>>> last week only.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>> Ash
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Josh Pollock <jpollock412 at gmail.com>
> To: theme-reviewers <theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 18:57:46 -0400
> Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Fwd: Plugin territory
> @Philip- I sent my last message for reading yours. You've given several
> examples of when the no plugin option might be better than the plugin
> option, which is in general better. Your last example especially
> illustrates how this can hurt developers and users. If a user is looking
> specifically for themes that can add the tracking code, and list it as a
> feature--because they need that, but need to limit their plugin count--they
> are not going to choose a theme that doesn't specifically say it has an
> option to add header/ footer scripts such as tracking codes, even though it
> does. Now the user missed out on a good theme, and the developer's theme
> got used one less time. Many of us are giving away themes in hopes of the
> end user paying us for an upsell version, theme customization, or a fancy
> child theme. Every time we loose a user of our free theme, we loose a
> potential customer for our services that we charge for.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <
> philip at frumph.net> wrote:
>
>> the Google Analyticator plugin is so awesome; there’s no comparison.
>>
>> .. on the fence with SEO; I haven’t seen one that is done right.. yoast
>> is close; but the biggest problem is ones like all-in-one generate the data
>> for each and every thing on every page load; which is bad; that’s a lot of
>> processing going on. I think to be done right it needs to incorporate
>> saving SEO data within meta fields and other things and not always
>> regenerated on each page load..
>>
>> Also, there’s the ‘load’ of the plugin which hasn’t been discussed; each
>> plugin contains a higher memory footprint for each and every plugin that is
>> loaded. While little things like the google analytics code being so
>> simple and all; having it as an increase in the memory footprint (execution
>> time on server; mem used etc) might actually be a benefit to the user.
>>
>> Plugin (saves in data, generates extra resource for each plugin used) ..
>> or one single line storing the Google Code which executes with the theme..
>> uh... yeah.
>>
>> There are a couple services that some clients of mine are on that those
>> users cannot have more then 4-5 plugins active because the footprint of
>> wordpress is higher then the amount of memory those services give in
>> available processing/memory.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 3:27 PM
>> *To:* [theme-reviewers] <theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [theme-reviewers] Fwd: Plugin territory
>>
>> No, I'm saying that a Theme option to allow the user to insert
>> arbitrary scripts or custom CSS is perfectly fine, but that a Theme
>> *instructing* the user to use that option to insert analytics code is not,
>> because it is functionally equivalent to the Theme providing an option
>> intentionally for inserting analytics code.
>>
>> We're not making their lives *more* complicated; we've making their lives
>> *less* complicated - because analytics and SEO become a matter of "set and
>> forget", regardless of what Theme is being used. (For the typical user, the
>> question isn't *if* that user will switch Themes in the future, but rather
>> *when* that user will switch Themes.) Further, I'll go out on a limb and
>> say that a Plugin intended specifically for analytics code and/or SEO is
>> going to be *better* coded, and *more* likely to be kept up-to-date, than
>> analogous options in a given Theme.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Josh Pollock <jpollock412 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Chip-
>>>
>>> Am I understanding you correctly that if a theme has an option called
>>> "add header script", that is OK, but if it has an option called "add
>>> analytics code to header" that is not OK, even though they do the exact
>>> same thing? That doesn't make sense.
>>>
>>> This requirement is making users add one more plugin to worry about
>>> updating, checking for incompatibilities with, etc. We're talking about a
>>> class of users that doesn't know to/ isin't comfortable doing something as
>>> simple as putting the tracking code in a function hooked to
>>> wp_header/footer or just cut and paste it into header.php. These aren't
>>> people who can evaluate a plugin to see if it is adding the analytics the
>>> right way or not... Why are we making their lives more complicated instead
>>> of judging the "add analytics" option the same way as the forbidden "add
>>> header script" option, which we allow as long as it is implemented properly?
>>>
>>> -Josh
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would require the text to be changed, if it says "add your analytics
>>>> code", since adding analytics code is Plugin territory.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> some are labelled "add your analytics code" and some just "add your
>>>>> header/footer scripts".
>>>>> I approved them without pointing it out as i wasn't sure of the rule.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How do you know that the end user will use them for that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> because they are used to add analytics scripts or similar to
>>>>>>> header/footer?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why would they?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (Not being sarcastic; I'm honestly asking.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> do textarea field's meant for header/footer scripts fall under
>>>>>>>>> plugin territory?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:57 PM, Chip Bennett <
>>>>>>>>> chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Themes are always required to conform to the guidelines as
>>>>>>>>>> current when the Theme is submitted. Guidelines can and do change, and
>>>>>>>>>> previous reviews can and do miss required criteria. I would note all of the
>>>>>>>>>> required issues, and hold the ticket open to allow for developer response.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:03 PM, devcorn <wp at devcorn.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was reviewing one theme and it has so many.. many things
>>>>>>>>>>> which comes under plugin territory shortcodes, SEO, download/upload... etc
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But the theme was previously approved, actually always
>>>>>>>>>>> approved... so I don't know what should I do with it. I don't want to
>>>>>>>>>>> disappoint the author , I can approve it with note to fix all these stuff
>>>>>>>>>>> in next version, but to my surprise. I downloaded and test old version and
>>>>>>>>>>> they had all of it.. so I don't know if I missed something as I joined WTRT
>>>>>>>>>>> last week only.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>> Ash
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> theme-reviewers mailing list
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>
--
Jonathan Weatherhead
Software Consultant
<blog> http://planetjon.ca
<portfolio> http://jonathanweatherhead.com
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