[theme-reviewers] Tags and description.

Fri Aug 23 18:44:44 UTC 2013

Oh sorry, I meant to proceed with the tags

On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:

> And what's the first thing those users are going to ask? *Why can't I
> just search for Themes that support JigoShop?*
>
> Something I didn't know: apparently there used to be an "e-commerce" tag:
> http://wordpress.org/themes/tags/e-commerce
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Not mostly useless, Users can select "e-commerce" tag and then go through
>> the descriptions to see which plugins those themes support since i am
>> thinking any new e-commerce plugin will have a tough time getting its own
>> tag.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>
>>> It's not about promotion. Consider all of the following:
>>>
>>> plugin-support-woocommerce
>>> plugin-support-wpecommerce
>>> plugin-support-shopp
>>> plugin-support-jigoshop
>>> plugin-support-cart66
>>> plugin-support-easy-digital-downloads
>>>
>>> A single "ecommerce" tag may "cover" all the bases, but I contend that
>>> it would be mostly useless. Themes can't integrate support for "ecommerce"
>>> Plugins generally; rather, they must integrate such support explicitly for
>>> each individual e-commerce Plugin. And users generally don't look for a
>>> Theme that supports e-commerce generally; rather, they look for Themes that
>>> integrate support for a specific e-commerce Plugin.
>>>
>>> So, an "ecommerce" tag might be good for WPORG Theme directory marketing
>>> ("The official directory hosts 300 e-commerce Themes!"), but it wouldn't be
>>> helpful for getting specific Themes with support for specific e-commerce
>>> Plugins into the hands of users.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's simple. If you have WooCommerce only, we're promoting one plugin.
>>>> Adding e-commerce will cover all e-commerce plugins<http://wordpress.org/plugins/tags/ecommerce>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can I ask why declaring support for WooCommerce (or any other
>>>>> commercial Plugin, such as any other commercial e-commerce Plugin, or
>>>>> Gravity Forms, or whatever) would not be acceptable? I think if the
>>>>> following are true, that should be sufficient:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) The Plugin for which support is declared is GPL/compatible
>>>>> 2) Plugin support is declared in an approved/standardized manner, such
>>>>> as *add_theme_support( 'plugin-name' )*
>>>>> 3) The Plugin keyword conforms to an approved convention, such as "*
>>>>> plugin-support-{plugin}*" (note: "bbpress" and "buddypress" could be
>>>>> converted to "plugin-support-bbpress" and "plugin-support-buddypress")
>>>>>
>>>>> I see this as a win-win for developers and for end users. Simply using
>>>>> a "e-commerce" tag probably isn't all that helpful, because more than
>>>>> likely, users will already have an e-commerce Plugin solution in mind, and
>>>>> will be looking for Themes that integrate support for their chosen Plugin,
>>>>> explicitly.
>>>>>
>>>>> The biggest issue here is scope/implementation on WPORG's end. But
>>>>> perhaps some of this could be automated, rather than all hard-coded in the
>>>>> WPORG franken-code.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> @Ulrich e-commerce is fine, WooCommerce is not. None of us here have
>>>>>> final saying in any of this and all can speak there minds. All I said
>>>>>> was from
>>>>>> WPORG point of view, not mine :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:16 AM, Ulrich Pogson <
>>>>>> grapplerulrich at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @Emil Who makes the final decision? So is this discussion has no
>>>>>>> point because we cannot influence anything?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 23 August 2013 09:00, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>> On Aug 23, 2013 1:45 AM, "Srikanth Koneru" <tskk79 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> +1 to Emil, just don't put "fluid grid system" in the definition
>>>>>>>>> of responsive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Absolute no to WooCommerce or any other commercial site. This is
>>>>>>>>>> the policy that was laid before us. I for one will keep that. Responsive
>>>>>>>>>> and Accessibility are in, let us pass that. No surveys, we will not carry
>>>>>>>>>> this more than we already did. I dislike long discussion over nothing.
>>>>>>>>>> Community was involved, provided with the chance to talk, that will wrap
>>>>>>>>>> this up. And note that it is not up to us, we don't hold the final word B-)
>>>>>>>>>>  On Aug 23, 2013 1:23 AM, "myazalea" <myazalea at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Big no to a woocommerce tag since its commercial and would be
>>>>>>>>>>> favoring it over other plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> yes to some sort of ecommerce or shop tag
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Skickat från min Samsung Mobil
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -------- Originalmeddelande --------
>>>>>>>>>>> Från: Ulrich Pogson <grapplerulrich at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Datum: 23-08-2013 8:17 (GMT+01:00)
>>>>>>>>>>> Till: "Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers." <
>>>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Rubrik: Re: [theme-reviewers] Tags and description.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am more for just "Responsive" because if I had to get examples
>>>>>>>>>>> this is what comes to mind first.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Responsive: TwentyTwelve
>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile-Optimized: Jetpack Mobile Theme
>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: WPTouch <http://wordpress.org/plugins/wptouch/>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The solutions for "Mobile-Optimized" and "Mobile" are plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As we have "buddypress" tag there should be a place "bbpress"
>>>>>>>>>>> and even "woocommerce" also.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think a survey would not be bad so that we can track the
>>>>>>>>>>> responses properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have created something. Would love some feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>> http://grapplerulrich.polldaddy.com/s/theme-tag-servey
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 23 August 2013 06:37, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Understood, I wasn't aware. And yes for above mobile.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Accessibility is on the list too. I think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 2013 11:35 PM, "Josh Pollock" <
>>>>>>>>>>>> jpollock412 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> @justin agreed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We ned to think about more than just mobile/responsive/etc
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tags.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about tags based one end purpose, how do we feel about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reviewing those? For instance theme forest has these top level categories
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for their WordPress themes: Blog/ magazine, creative, corporate, retail,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> technology, nonprofit, entertainment, miscellaneous, mobile, buddypress,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and ecommerce. Could we do tags like that? What about a CMS tag?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> @emil - There is no guarantee that there will be new tags.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This process is very preliminary. But if a useful set of tags can be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> generated by the THX38 project, then a new search filtering system based on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those tags will have a good shot at being implemented.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm trying to take some initiative to bring the theme review
>>>>>>>>>>>>> team's thoughts on tags back to the THX38 team because I'm the only theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reviewer that was present for the first THX38 meeting and a lot of ideas
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for new tags were thrown around, which made me worry about how we were
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to review them. Basically, I'd rather say, "this is what the theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>> review team discussion resulted in", then say, "as one of the theme
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reviewers this is what I think."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Justin Tadlock <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> justin at justintadlock.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I agree with Chip that one tag would be better for end
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users.  However, I also think we need to propose multiple tags to whoever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in charge of this.  So, having a list of potential tags with their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitions is what we should put together.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On that note, I've never had a user ask for an "adaptive"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme.  It's mostly "responsive."  But, "mobile-ready" and "mobile-first"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are terms that are also thrown around a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I dislike the phrase "fluid grid system" when referring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to responsive design.  Maybe something along the lines of "a fluid layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that responds to screen size."  Anyway, I'm just nit-picking words here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/22/2013 10:52 PM, Josh Pollock wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @chip- I think there is a good chance of a lot of new tags
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being added. Everyone agrees we need to be able to filter search results
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on tags and the current set of tags doesn't do it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  What does it hurt to create a list of tag and definitions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the theme review team thinks would be useful and we could review
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fairly?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I think it would be better if we brainstormed a list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without any premptive doomsaying, so I can take it back to the THX38
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meeting as the theme review teams ideas on new tags, instead of just bringing own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 22, 2013, Chip Bennett wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My main problem with that is that it's still adding three
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tags where currently none exist. I just don't see that flying with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> powers-that-be. I think our best bet of getting *any* tags added is to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to a single tag.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  IMHO, the tag list could probably stand for a bit of an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overhaul - but that would be a bigger discussion than this one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Josh Pollock <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jpollock412 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How about this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Responsive: "A theme with a layout that employs a fluid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grid system that changes in response to screen size."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile-Optimized: "A theme that adjusts its layout, reduces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sizes of its media elements and otherwise improves the page load time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and user experience for mobile."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: "A Theme that is designed to be used only on mobile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Notice I left adaptive off of the list, and I'm open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaving mobile off too if its not needed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mobile-responsive and that includes both?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 2013 5:46 PM, "Emil Uzelac" <emil at uzelac.me>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever is better. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 5:44 PM, "Chip Bennett" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember: those tags are, primarily, for *users* rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for developers. To the end user: what's the tangible difference between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "responsive" and "adaptive"? In this case, "end user" could be both the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> site owner (the one who chooses and installs the Theme) or the site visitor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who would view the website via devices with various screen sizes).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Do a developer, I agree 100% that the two terms have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tangible, meaningful differences.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I'm just struggling to see how a user would see any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever. In both cases, the Theme is designed to work on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices with variously small screen sizes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Josh Pollock <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jpollock412 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree and disagree with Chip. I agree we need to find the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition that is most useful to end users and two tags with the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition is probably confusing. The problem is some end users are more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sophisticated than others. Some know what responsive means, some don't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, we shouldn't equate the two, because they are different. GIve me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a little time and I will propose some new definitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  @Ulrich We can't just add tags to the guidelines. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to be supported by core. As part of the THX38 project this will most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likely happening. I'm hoping to go to the next THX38 meeting with a list of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tags that we, as theme reviewers, want added and feel like we can review
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Chip Bennett <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm one of those people who doesn't know the difference
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between "responsive" and "adaptive". Well, until just now,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I googled it<http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/web-designer/what-is-the-difference-between-responsive-vs-adaptive-web-design/>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  The TL;DR of that article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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