[theme-reviewers] Tags and description.

Emil Uzelac emil at uzelac.me
Fri Aug 23 18:33:30 UTC 2013 

how do we move forward?


On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Not mostly useless, Users can select "e-commerce" tag and then go through
> the descriptions to see which plugins those themes support since i am
> thinking any new e-commerce plugin will have a tough time getting its own
> tag.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>
>> It's not about promotion. Consider all of the following:
>>
>> plugin-support-woocommerce
>> plugin-support-wpecommerce
>> plugin-support-shopp
>> plugin-support-jigoshop
>> plugin-support-cart66
>> plugin-support-easy-digital-downloads
>>
>> A single "ecommerce" tag may "cover" all the bases, but I contend that it
>> would be mostly useless. Themes can't integrate support for "ecommerce"
>> Plugins generally; rather, they must integrate such support explicitly for
>> each individual e-commerce Plugin. And users generally don't look for a
>> Theme that supports e-commerce generally; rather, they look for Themes that
>> integrate support for a specific e-commerce Plugin.
>>
>> So, an "ecommerce" tag might be good for WPORG Theme directory marketing
>> ("The official directory hosts 300 e-commerce Themes!"), but it wouldn't be
>> helpful for getting specific Themes with support for specific e-commerce
>> Plugins into the hands of users.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>
>>> That's simple. If you have WooCommerce only, we're promoting one plugin.
>>> Adding e-commerce will cover all e-commerce plugins<http://wordpress.org/plugins/tags/ecommerce>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can I ask why declaring support for WooCommerce (or any other
>>>> commercial Plugin, such as any other commercial e-commerce Plugin, or
>>>> Gravity Forms, or whatever) would not be acceptable? I think if the
>>>> following are true, that should be sufficient:
>>>>
>>>> 1) The Plugin for which support is declared is GPL/compatible
>>>> 2) Plugin support is declared in an approved/standardized manner, such
>>>> as *add_theme_support( 'plugin-name' )*
>>>> 3) The Plugin keyword conforms to an approved convention, such as "*
>>>> plugin-support-{plugin}*" (note: "bbpress" and "buddypress" could be
>>>> converted to "plugin-support-bbpress" and "plugin-support-buddypress")
>>>>
>>>> I see this as a win-win for developers and for end users. Simply using
>>>> a "e-commerce" tag probably isn't all that helpful, because more than
>>>> likely, users will already have an e-commerce Plugin solution in mind, and
>>>> will be looking for Themes that integrate support for their chosen Plugin,
>>>> explicitly.
>>>>
>>>> The biggest issue here is scope/implementation on WPORG's end. But
>>>> perhaps some of this could be automated, rather than all hard-coded in the
>>>> WPORG franken-code.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> @Ulrich e-commerce is fine, WooCommerce is not. None of us here have
>>>>> final saying in any of this and all can speak there minds. All I said
>>>>> was from
>>>>> WPORG point of view, not mine :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:16 AM, Ulrich Pogson <
>>>>> grapplerulrich at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> @Emil Who makes the final decision? So is this discussion has no
>>>>>> point because we cannot influence anything?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23 August 2013 09:00, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>> On Aug 23, 2013 1:45 AM, "Srikanth Koneru" <tskk79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +1 to Emil, just don't put "fluid grid system" in the definition of
>>>>>>>> responsive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Absolute no to WooCommerce or any other commercial site. This is
>>>>>>>>> the policy that was laid before us. I for one will keep that. Responsive
>>>>>>>>> and Accessibility are in, let us pass that. No surveys, we will not carry
>>>>>>>>> this more than we already did. I dislike long discussion over nothing.
>>>>>>>>> Community was involved, provided with the chance to talk, that will wrap
>>>>>>>>> this up. And note that it is not up to us, we don't hold the final word B-)
>>>>>>>>>  On Aug 23, 2013 1:23 AM, "myazalea" <myazalea at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Big no to a woocommerce tag since its commercial and would be
>>>>>>>>>> favoring it over other plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> yes to some sort of ecommerce or shop tag
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Skickat från min Samsung Mobil
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -------- Originalmeddelande --------
>>>>>>>>>> Från: Ulrich Pogson <grapplerulrich at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Datum: 23-08-2013 8:17 (GMT+01:00)
>>>>>>>>>> Till: "Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers." <
>>>>>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Rubrik: Re: [theme-reviewers] Tags and description.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am more for just "Responsive" because if I had to get examples
>>>>>>>>>> this is what comes to mind first.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Responsive: TwentyTwelve
>>>>>>>>>> Mobile-Optimized: Jetpack Mobile Theme
>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: WPTouch <http://wordpress.org/plugins/wptouch/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The solutions for "Mobile-Optimized" and "Mobile" are plugins.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As we have "buddypress" tag there should be a place "bbpress" and
>>>>>>>>>> even "woocommerce" also.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think a survey would not be bad so that we can track the
>>>>>>>>>> responses properly.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have created something. Would love some feedback.
>>>>>>>>>> http://grapplerulrich.polldaddy.com/s/theme-tag-servey
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 23 August 2013 06:37, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Understood, I wasn't aware. And yes for above mobile.
>>>>>>>>>>> Accessibility is on the list too. I think.
>>>>>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 2013 11:35 PM, "Josh Pollock" <jpollock412 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> @justin agreed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We ned to think about more than just mobile/responsive/etc tags.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What about tags based one end purpose, how do we feel about
>>>>>>>>>>>> reviewing those? For instance theme forest has these top level categories
>>>>>>>>>>>> for their WordPress themes: Blog/ magazine, creative, corporate, retail,
>>>>>>>>>>>> technology, nonprofit, entertainment, miscellaneous, mobile, buddypress,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and ecommerce. Could we do tags like that? What about a CMS tag?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> @emil - There is no guarantee that there will be new tags. This
>>>>>>>>>>>> process is very preliminary. But if a useful set of tags can be generated
>>>>>>>>>>>> by the THX38 project, then a new search filtering system based on those
>>>>>>>>>>>> tags will have a good shot at being implemented.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm trying to take some initiative to bring the theme review
>>>>>>>>>>>> team's thoughts on tags back to the THX38 team because I'm the only theme
>>>>>>>>>>>> reviewer that was present for the first THX38 meeting and a lot of ideas
>>>>>>>>>>>> for new tags were thrown around, which made me worry about how we were
>>>>>>>>>>>> going to review them. Basically, I'd rather say, "this is what the theme
>>>>>>>>>>>> review team discussion resulted in", then say, "as one of the theme
>>>>>>>>>>>> reviewers this is what I think."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Justin Tadlock <
>>>>>>>>>>>> justin at justintadlock.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I agree with Chip that one tag would be better for end
>>>>>>>>>>>>> users.  However, I also think we need to propose multiple tags to whoever
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in charge of this.  So, having a list of potential tags with their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitions is what we should put together.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On that note, I've never had a user ask for an "adaptive"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme.  It's mostly "responsive."  But, "mobile-ready" and "mobile-first"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are terms that are also thrown around a bit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I dislike the phrase "fluid grid system" when referring
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to responsive design.  Maybe something along the lines of "a fluid layout
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that responds to screen size."  Anyway, I'm just nit-picking words here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/22/2013 10:52 PM, Josh Pollock wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> @chip- I think there is a good chance of a lot of new tags
>>>>>>>>>>>>> being added. Everyone agrees we need to be able to filter search results
>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on tags and the current set of tags doesn't do it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  What does it hurt to create a list of tag and definitions
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the theme review team thinks would be useful and we could review
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fairly?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I think it would be better if we brainstormed a list without
>>>>>>>>>>>>> any premptive doomsaying, so I can take it back to the THX38 meeting as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> theme review teams ideas on new tags, instead of just bringing own
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 22, 2013, Chip Bennett wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My main problem with that is that it's still adding three
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tags where currently none exist. I just don't see that flying with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> powers-that-be. I think our best bet of getting *any* tags added is to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to a single tag.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  IMHO, the tag list could probably stand for a bit of an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overhaul - but that would be a bigger discussion than this one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Josh Pollock <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jpollock412 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How about this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Responsive: "A theme with a layout that employs a fluid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grid system that changes in response to screen size."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile-Optimized: "A theme that adjusts its layout, reduces
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sizes of its media elements and otherwise improves the page load time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and user experience for mobile."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: "A Theme that is designed to be used only on mobile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Notice I left adaptive off of the list, and I'm open to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaving mobile off too if its not needed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at uzelac.me>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mobile-responsive and that includes both?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 2013 5:46 PM, "Emil Uzelac" <emil at uzelac.me>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever is better. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 5:44 PM, "Chip Bennett" <chip at chipbennett.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember: those tags are, primarily, for *users* rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for developers. To the end user: what's the tangible difference between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "responsive" and "adaptive"? In this case, "end user" could be both the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> site owner (the one who chooses and installs the Theme) or the site visitor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who would view the website via devices with various screen sizes).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Do a developer, I agree 100% that the two terms have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tangible, meaningful differences.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  I'm just struggling to see how a user would see any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever. In both cases, the Theme is designed to work on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices with variously small screen sizes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Josh Pollock <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jpollock412 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree and disagree with Chip. I agree we need to find the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition that is most useful to end users and two tags with the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition is probably confusing. The problem is some end users are more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sophisticated than others. Some know what responsive means, some don't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, we shouldn't equate the two, because they are different. GIve me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a little time and I will propose some new definitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  @Ulrich We can't just add tags to the guidelines. They need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be supported by core. As part of the THX38 project this will most likely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happening. I'm hoping to go to the next THX38 meeting with a list of tags
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we, as theme reviewers, want added and feel like we can review
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Chip Bennett <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm one of those people who doesn't know the difference
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between "responsive" and "adaptive". Well, until just now,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I googled it<http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/web-designer/what-is-the-difference-between-responsive-vs-adaptive-web-design/>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  The TL;DR of that article:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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