[theme-reviewers] GPL

Mon Aug 13 07:17:06 UTC 2012

Hey Emil,

Just to clarify, you're picking up on previous conversation of GPLv2 Vs
GPLv3 and not really replying to where ravi and I just left off, yes? We
branched the conversation out a bit into a different area.

Thanks, Bryan

Bryan Phillip Hadaway

Web & Graphic Designer
calmestghost.com
bhadaway at gmail.com

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On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 11:28 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at themeid.com> wrote:

> Just for the record:
>
>    - Themes are required<http://codex.wordpress.org/Theme_Review#Licensing>to be 100% GPL-licensed, or use a GPL-compatible license. This includes all
>    PHP, HTML, CSS, images, fonts, icons, and everything else. All of the theme
>    must be GPL-Compatible.
>
> GPLv3<http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html#GPLCompatibleLicenses>is 100% GPL-Compatible. It is not our decision to "force" or even
> recommend, heck I would not even note the ticket suggesting authors what
> version of GPL they should be using. GPLv2 and GPLv3 are 100% acceptable
> licenses.
>
> Now for one license not being compatible with another is a different story.
>
> *P.S. This is never-ending discussion and there's no way that all of us
> here will agree on the same license, we're given the choice and right to
> use either of them.*
>
> Thanks,
> Emil
>
> On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Bryan Hadaway <bhadaway at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I'm not really sure what you're saying exactly, so I say this with the
>> best intentions of what I believe that to be, but also talking about the
>> issue in general. As best as I can tell, it appears that you're inferring
>> that I've taken an anti-GPL or Public Domain Vs GPL stance on the
>> discussion at hand, which isn't the case. Of course correct me if I'm wrong.
>>
>> In any case I think I understand what you're trying to get at about
>> possible risks with Public Domain, but honestly those same risks exist with
>> any license (or no license). The bottom line is that we're not talking
>> about anything tangible (I know, a whole other debate), code, and the
>> attached user's rights, freedoms etc are all released in a "good faith"
>> scenario and can all be exploited no matter how something is released,
>> unless we get into copyright/notarized/patented territory.
>>
>> Let's look at some black and white hypotheticals:
>>
>> *Example 1*: Something is released into the Public Domain. Someone takes
>> it, copyrights and licenses it and sales it as is. They then sue the
>> original source and claim that they in fact stole it (copyright
>> infringement) from their product.
>>
>> *Example 2*: Something is released as a GPLed premium product. Someone
>> takes it, publishes it as Public Domain. They then sue the original source
>> and claim that they in fact stole it from their free project and turned it
>> into a premium product fraudulently privatizing and selling something that
>> cannot legally leave the Public Domain.
>>
>> Before we get into a million different possibilities/angles/gotchas/yadda
>> yadda, let me just say that in the US, anyone can sue anyone else for
>> anything, and I mean anything. And further more it doesn't matter what the
>> actual truth is. The law has nothing to do with the truth. It only has to
>> do with what can be "proven" in the eyes of the court. I've had lawyers for
>> clients and I've talked to dozens of lawyers/firms throughout my career,
>> and they all confirm this. Often the only thing that matters, is who has
>> more money, period. It's a very sad reality.
>>
>> So, when it comes to the intangible nature of a WordPress theme, anyone
>> can take it and either slap whatever license on it they want or remove
>> whatever licensing they want from it and redistribute it guised as the
>> original source. And if they get cornered and don't have a very good case
>> there's always plausible deniability. "Hey, I searched for a website
>> template online and found this cool theme in a forum and they said it was
>> free, so I downloaded it." And anything digital can be faked, duped so
>> easily, and even anything that *IS *real in the digital realm could be
>> put through the reasonable doubt ringer etc etc etc.
>>
>> So you feel safe releasing something as GPL? Why? And I mean that only in
>> the sense of the worst case exploitation scenario that you brought up.
>> Theoretically, we could think of all sorts of awful things that we should
>> both be stressed about equally, regardless of how we release our code. If
>> we're gonna put it under the microscope with that kind of "what if" filter,
>> we're not going to feel safe.
>>
>> But, that's the point of it all right? We don't want to be corporate, we
>> don't want to copyright, trademark, patent the code we release. We want
>> people to enjoy it, use it, change it etc. Because we want to be friendly,
>> we expose ourselves to litigious people. That's the very nature of the
>> beast, always has been.
>>
>> When it *really* comes right down to it, it's just a preference, even if
>> we both in addition release our code under no warranty clauses, it's all a
>> deterrent, not foolproof. We have to do our best to conform to our own
>> personal ethics and hope for the best, that people are generally good,
>> naive as that is that's our pursuit.
>>
>> For the record, I like GPL just fine. If I had any ethical (or otherwise)
>> problem with it I wouldn't have ever used it to begin with, I would have
>> simply avoided the official repo. I simply prefer Public Domain. I don't
>> think it extinguishes vulnerability to exploitation, of course not. But,
>> that doesn't mean that the GPL or any other license in a digital product
>> are not open to the same exploitations, though differing circumstances.
>>
>> If I completely misunderstood what you were trying to say please clarify.
>> Either way, I think what I've said carries a lot of important, valid
>> points. And yes, I'd love to read the article you wrote. Knowledge is power.
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Bryan
>>
>>
>> Bryan Phillip Hadaway
>>
>>
>> Web & Graphic Designer
>> calmestghost.com
>> bhadaway at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> *Socialize:* Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/calmestghost> | Twitter<http://twitter.com/calmestghost> |
>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/calmestghost> | Google+<https://plus.google.com/104582075016689917593>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 8:19 PM, // ravi <ravi-lists at g8o.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Correction:
>>>
>>> On Aug 12, 2012, at 11:16 PM, // ravi <ravi-lists at g8o.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > The side you are missing, IMHO, is that this idea of “pure” and
>>> “friendly” (scares not intended …
>>>
>>>
>>> “quotes not intended”…
>>>
>>>
>>> > as scare, but merely to note that they are borrowed from you) is open
>>> to exploitation and potentially short-lived in an
>>> evolutionary/game-theoretic sense [arguably]. I use the GPL for every bit
>>> of code that I release, and I do that without stress because I know that it
>>> is one of the strongest way to avoid the community that I am a part of from
>>> being exploited - that anyone who uses our work will share their work with
>>> us.
>>> >
>>> > I wrote a blog post about this that was picked by Matt, the last time
>>> the GPL wars came around. If you think they might be of interest, please
>>> contact me for a link.
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> >
>>> >       —ravi
>>> >
>>>
>>> Apologies.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>
>>
>>
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>
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