[theme-reviewers] WPTRT = TSA?

Thu Jan 20 03:25:24 UTC 2011

The point is for the end user to have a variety of new design styles available.  Nothing more, nothing less.  While they are available at tertiary sites the only real concern is your valid one on it's point of being an update free situation.

*which* if possible could be rectified by having them *not* on the update notification list from the wordpress repository, but still available.   Main themes available to be updated by child themes not would certainly solve that.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Chip Bennett 
  To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 7:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] WPTRT = TSA?

  Originally, Child Themes were intended to be *update-proof*, not "more update-proof", than (stand-alone) Themes. They were intended as a way for the *end user* to add Theme modifications that would be retained when the Parent Theme was updated.

  The point of the Repository (at least, now that it is tied into wp-admin via automatic updates) is to push Theme updates to end users.

  Thus, the two purposes - to provide a means of update-proof Theme modifications and to push Theme updates - conflict, if the code in question is the same (i.e. a Child Theme).

  If end users will be asked to change the Name: tag of the Child Theme, in order to prevent it from being over-written, then what is the point of hosting that Child Theme in the Repository in the first place?

  (Now, on the other hand, I can see great advantage in encouraging Child - rather than derivative - Themes for TwentyTen, TwentyEleven, or whatever current default Theme.)

  Chip

  On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <philip at frumph.net> wrote:

    Child themes are more update proof then the standard theme, not sure where you are getting and really would like an elaboration on the 'intented benefit of child themes'.  Which i'm going to assume you're thinking of the fact that it's good to have a child theme that is not going to lose it's look when the main parent theme is updated.   In that case I am going to note that a child theme can still be customized to denote a non-update path by changing the name in the style.css;  just like a theme.   If you're going to snag a child theme or theme and make customizations it would be a benefit to customize the name to remove it from upgrade notification.

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Chip Bennett 
      To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org 
      Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 6:42 PM
      Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] WPTRT = TSA?

      I would like to do something about the horribly out-of-date and obsolete Themes in the repository, but maybe now isn't the right time - other than trying the positive-reinforcement route (a Theme adoption program). Maybe once we've had a year or so of Themes passing the Theme Review process, we'll have enough of a selection to justify arguing to begin suspending the most egregiously obsolete Themes. 

      I go back and forth on Child Themes, but at the moment, I'm leaning *against* having Child Themes in the Repository. I really believe strongly that Child Themes should be left completely to the *End Users*, as their means of implementing update-proof Theme modifications. If we start encouraging the distribution (and, therefore, *update*) of Child Themes, we encourage depriving the End User of the the primary, intended benefit of Child Themes.

      The Frameworks discussion has progressed well, and as you said: now is probably a good time to move that discussion to a wider audience, via a post on the Make site. I think we can make some good strides with Frameworks.

      I agree regarding SVN-commit access for *trusted* developers - especially initially (or as a trial run). The potential for abuse is huge - and SVN-commit access for Themes could be pitched as a form of award/recognition/achievement for great contributions to the Theme Repository.

      (Did I forget to mention Theme Documentation? Darn it; I meant to talk about it.)

      Chip

      On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:19 PM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <philip at frumph.net> wrote:

        We'll get there with the plans we have setup ya?, just gotta have da patience.

        Donncha's reference reminds me of my tagline "I'm in your site touching your stuff."  kinda brings a new meaning to it ;/  where's the girl wearing the bikini to try to circumvent the system, i'd totally let that happen.

        The completeness of Justin's "Great strides in cleaning up the repository" statement leaves me to think we really haven't gotten anywhere close to cleaning up the "old" things in the repository.   There is much more we can do to deal with that, given any abilities that Otto might let us have.   Think the whole 'up to a certain version' those old themes needs to be inacted upon with the 'adopt' program. (need to continue discussion on it on a make.wordpress.org/themes post)  The issue being that this makes work for Otto to move the ownership of the theme to someone else, if there can be some work done on that to make his life easier that'd be great, or even some automation for pross/cais/chip to handle it.

        Next is getting the 'flags' set and working for child themes.     This could be done with a bit of code for the repository to associate one theme with another theme as it's parent, since this is bbpress couldn't child theme's be just children post of the parent?  Dunno.   But we still need to look into how to make it work without dropping the ball completely and letting it slide like it has been.

        Frameworks - frameworks being 'the code behind the templetes'  we've already been having that as part of the discussion we just need to finalize it and so far noone really had any doubts to themes created with framework backends to be put on the repository it's just the definetions that need to be finished so that there's a clear cut view of reviewing them.

        Chip's SVN itemized in his list brings me to thinking that there are some serious quality theme designers that would warrant this ability to have SVN access; .. but not everyone.  If it's possible to enable svn access to 'known developers of good intent' I'm all for that.

        One of the things that 2011 is missing in all of those responses is the advent of deeper and more quality documentation from developers utilizing current and new methods instead of some of the ../shudder/ code that is currently out there.

        I'm also believing that Premium Themes will offer more then just their themes, but direct monthly support contracts for maintenance; installation and customizations - more so then just the theme sale.

          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: Edward Caissie 
          To: theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org 
          Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 5:56 PM
          Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] WPTRT = TSA?

          You are correct ... now that you mention it I remember from reading earlier today.

          Still good to be noticed all the same (*grin*) ... we need something to help generate more interest. Now if we could only get the "Make" site on the proverbial (social media) map.

          On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:

            Actually, that was Donnacha's description... 

            On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Edward Caissie <edward.caissie at gmail.com> wrote:

              I guess I can't complain ... at least Ryan took the time to think of and write that description.

              ... any notice is better than not being noticed at all.

              On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:20 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net> wrote:

                Quite the metaphorical description! 

                  The gates to the official WordPress.org theme repository are now guarded by a hardcore volunteer militia, the Theme Review Team, with all the no-nonsense attitude of a cranky TSA junk-fondler whose hasn’t yet had his afternoon box of donuts.

                Interesting read from WPCandy today.

                (Although my attitude is generally more driven in indirect proportion to my daily coffee intake...)

                Chip

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