[theme-reviewers] A few issues to look out for

Wed Apr 27 03:09:30 UTC 2011

Here's an example of my use case:
https://github.com/chipbennett/oenology/blob/master/comments.php

(And consider that the Guidelines currently *suggest* separating pings from
comments.)

My primary issue is with this assertion:

how will this be displayed if a theme is deliberately overwriting core
functionality and not showing the output of alternate comment types?

Passing a valid argument to a core function is not "overwriting core
functionality". Those arbitrary, "alternate" comment types *aren't part of
core*. Put bluntly: *as a matter of official Theme review, I don't care
about any non-core comment types, including "tweetback"*.

Again: if a Plugin adds a custom comment type, then the *Plugin* is
responsible for either hooking that custom content into the Theme, or else
for providing instructions to the end user for how to incorporate that
custom content. (Yes, it might mean instructing the user to add a call to
wp_list_comments( 'type=tweetback' ). I see no problem with that.)

I don't agree that WordPress "handles it beautifully", because,
aesthetically speaking, I think that pings mixed in with comments looks
utterly horrid. Seeing "tweetbacks" mixed in with comments AND pings would
look even worse.

On the other hand: I do agree with you that all code should be added
deliberately. Copy/pasting TwentyTen's comments callback should  be done
deliberately. And we should absolutely be checking such a Theme's
comment-list output, to ensure that it is appropriate - and wherever
possible, helping to educate Theme developers on the proper usage and
powerful potential of implementing such custom callbacks. Such effort will
only be to the benefit of end users.

Chip

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 9:50 PM, Justin Tadlock <justin at justintadlock.com>wrote:

>  My question is:  If a plugin adds a custom comment type (for example,
> Facebook comments, tweetbacks, or something of the sort), how will this be
> displayed if a theme is deliberately overwriting core functionality and not
> showing the output of alternate comment types?
>
> By default, WordPress handles this beautifully.  It's only when a theme
> overwrites this functionality that it breaks.
>
> The fix is really quite simple for most themes.  Just create a default case
> in that copy-pasted switch statement used in about 90% of the themes based
> off TwentyTen's comment system.
>
> I'm not suggesting we make a new guideline here.  I'm just suggesting we be
> on the lookout for this in themes where devs just copy/paste comment
> callback functions without giving it much thought.  I could certainly
> understand an intentional design choice to exclude custom comment types.
> Whatever we decide, I'll be sure to continue educating theme authors on this
> because it is a legitimate problem that themes create for plugin authors.
>
>
> On 4/26/2011 9:36 PM, Chip Bennett wrote:
>
> If a Theme is providing callback output for 'comment', 'pingback', and
> 'trackback', then it IS handling every core comment type; thus, I disagree
> that a Theme is not "handling every scenario that core handles by default".
> A Theme cannot know what a Plugin might possibly hook into, or what content
> it might provide.
>
>  Now, if a Theme provided callback functions for only 'comment' comment
> types, but not for 'pings' (or if it accounted for 'trackback' but not
> 'pingback', or something similar), then I would agree.
>
>  One of the most common features is for a Theme to separate comments form
> pings. That very act of separation - however accomplished - would require
> explicitly declaring 'comment' and 'pings' comment types. Thus, it would not
> be using the 'all' comment type. And thus, such Themes would no longer be
> flexible enough to handle some non-core comment type added by a Plugin.
>
>  Or am I missing something?
>
>  Chip
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Justin Tadlock <justin at justintadlock.com>wrote:
>
>>  I probably didn't explain myself well enough in the first email.
>>
>> We're not looking at the "type" parameter of wp_list_comments().  We're
>> looking at the "callback" parameter here.  This is where a theme is
>> overriding core functionality.  If the theme didn't override this
>> functionality with a custom function, WordPress would display other comment
>> types by default.
>>
>> A plugin cannot be responsible for incorporating custom comment types if a
>> theme is purposely not allowing comments of a custom type to show.  There's
>> no hook to allow a plugin to override what a theme is doing there.  Even if
>> there was a hook there, this would be a major problem if a plugin was
>> changing how a theme handled the display of comments.
>>
>> What's happening here is themes are overriding core functionality without
>> handling every scenario that core handles by default.
>>
>>
>> On 4/26/2011 3:18 PM, Chip Bennett wrote:
>>
>> Quite possibly. But it is not the responsibility of Themes to account for
>> content added by Plugins.
>>
>>  I see no reason to require Themes to support a non-core 'tweetback'
>> comment-type. If a Plugin adds this comment-type, then the Plugin should be
>> responsible for incorporating it.
>>
>>  Chip
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Sayontan Sinha <sayontan at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Chip,
>>> I believe Justin is referring to the fact that plugins can add the type
>>> "tweetback". If that is the case, then a theme that is explicitly checking
>>> only for "comment", "pingback" and "trackback" is missing out on the ones
>>> that don't fall into these buckets, i.e. it is missing a catch-all for types
>>> introduced by plugins.
>>>
>>> Sayontan.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I can't find that 'tweetback' is a core comment type.
>>>>
>>>>  According to the Codex<http://codex.wordpress.org/Function_Reference/wp_list_comments>,
>>>> the valid types are: 'all', 'comment', 'trackback', 'pingback', or
>>>> 'pings'
>>>>
>>>>  So, if a Theme accounts for these types, that should be sufficient.
>>>> For instance, if a Theme accounts for 'comments' and 'pings', all bases are
>>>> covered.
>>>>
>>>>  Chip
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 2:39 PM, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hmm... I don't think I've yet seen a Theme that explicitly handles
>>>>> tweetbacks. (Honestly, I didn't even realize such a comment type existed.)
>>>>>
>>>>>  Chip
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Justin Tadlock <
>>>>> justin at justintadlock.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's a few things we should be on the lookout for when reviewing
>>>>>> themes that I thought I'd bring up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The use of the_post_thumbnail() with the_content() can sometimes be a
>>>>>> problem.  If a user places the image within the post content (at the
>>>>>> beginning of the post) and sets the same image as the "feature image," it
>>>>>> creates a duplicate image issue.  Some themes' designs are meant to handle
>>>>>> this while others aren't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some themes have a comments callback function where they don't
>>>>>> recognize comment types other than 'comment', 'pingback', and 'trackback'.
>>>>>> This is also the case in the TwentyTen theme.  If you look at its switch
>>>>>> statement, you'll notice it doesn't give a 'default' case.  It should be
>>>>>> corrected to handle all comment types (e.g., tweetbacks).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Loading JS and CSS on all pages of the admin.  Sometimes, themes hook
>>>>>> their theme settings page JavaScript and Stylesheet to the 'admin_init' hook
>>>>>> or something similar.  This should only be loaded on the the theme settings
>>>>>> page.  If using the add_theme_page() function, a hook is created just for
>>>>>> that page.  A better hook would probably be
>>>>>> 'load-appearance_page_$pagename'.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> theme-reviewers mailing list
>>>>>> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>>>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> Sayontan Sinha
>>> http://mynethome.net | http://mynethome.net/blog
>>>  --
>>> Beating Australia in Cricket is like killing a celebrity. The death gets
>>> more coverage than the crime.
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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