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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoPlainText>I've been reading these emails from this topic...As much respect I have for everyone, I do have to agree with the admins.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I'm in a similar situation myself with one of my themes that I decided to recode from the ground up. I know I cannot name it with a versioning name, so I created a new theme name. I have no problem with this because I know there are naming guidelines to follow, so I created a new theme name and submitted it. Once it's in review, I will be removing the older theme so it does not create any confusion.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Anyway, I can see things are a bit heated, and I see it's already posted on Twitter by a certain party, so hopefully things work out for everyone in the end here. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Also, you’re correct Emil, about Genesis…it can be done with most if not all themes when dealing with a framework based theme. I’m not an admin, but have to agree with the naming conventions in the guidelines and it should be kept the same for everyone to be fair, otherwise it will just open up a whole can of worms.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Andre<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> theme-reviewers [mailto:theme-reviewers-bounces@lists.wordpress.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Emil Uzelac<br><b>Sent:</b> September-26-14 7:57 PM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers.<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [theme-reviewers] Why can't theme authors have a second version of a theme?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We have been "forced" into vote and so far two admins are against. Tammie, when time allows please add few words so that we can conclude this.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Here is an example how Bruce handled the switch: <a href="https://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/7656" target="_blank">https://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/7656</a> note that he also stand behind a large user base.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 9:49 PM, Zulfikar Nore <<a href="mailto:zulfikarnore@live.com" target="_blank">zulfikarnore@live.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Can we get a list of what would break listed in ticket please?<br><br>Installed Responsive, downloaded Responsive II and renamed to Responsive with version set to the latest version. Deleted the original Responsive from the site and replaced with renamed one on viewing the site and admin area the only "breaking" I can see is the new layout.<br><br>Are we classing the loss of the old Responsive layout as "breaking" sites? <br><br>Zulf<o:p></o:p></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal>From: <a href="mailto:trent@cyberchimps.com" target="_blank">trent@cyberchimps.com</a><br>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 19:43:52 -0700<br>To: <a href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [theme-reviewers] Why can't theme authors have a second version of a theme?<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Cais,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Slippery slope argument does not apply here. I am not asking to use someone else’s theme name. I am asking to use my own name.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Again, I see no logical reason why a theme author cannot release multiple themes under the same brand.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If the issue is using a number or Roman numerals, then can I use a letter or letters instead?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>"Responsive HD" for example?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If you admins are going to enforce ridiculous rules like this, then you need to provide us with a solution that doesn’t result in breaking millions of peoples websites, or forcing me to release the next version of my product under a brand name no one will be able to identify.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Someone here needs to purpose an actual solution that is acceptable. Otherwise we’re just going in circles here.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I just need someway to communicate that this is the new version of the Responsive theme without breaking millions of websites. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>My team and I have debated this, and there is no easy solution. We could build a plugin to change the update API and switch it to Github, we could do a number of things to try and provide backwards compatibility, but all of those “solutions” are compromises that will bloat our code, and force us to release an inferior product.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>--Trent Lapinski<br>=============<br>CEO of CyberChimps Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><a href="http://CyberChimps.com" target="_blank">http://CyberChimps.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Twitter @trentlapinski<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;color:black'>Skype: mobiletrent</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sep 26, 2014, at 7:30 PM, Edward Caissie <<a href="mailto:edward.caissie@gmail.com" target="_blank">edward.caissie@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>TL;DR: The idea of a version number in the theme name as not acceptable is a valid point.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Do we really need to write a new guideline (or re-write the existing) to make this more clear. I can go do that right now if necessary but I think some common sense should be applied in much the same way that the plugin repository does not allow for it. Granted the two repositories have their differences but there is no reason not to follow common sense and shared ideals.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I can appreciate your concern about potentially breaking some (all?) sites if this theme was released as an update to its predecessor but simply put if it is that vastly different and there is no backward compatibility then it really is a new theme and should have its own name. Let its code; its layout; and, its poetry stand on its own merits.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I'm not looking to carry this argument on wether or not the theme name is valid ... in this case I do not consider it to be acceptable.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>We're not stopping you from using your "brand" ... by all means feel free to release a theme named Responsive II wherever you would like. We're just saying it's not an acceptable name in the WordPress Theme repository. Nothing against CyberChimps, its actually something that I would like to view as a benefit for your "brand" as well as other theme author's "brand" names. We should not be allowing most anything similarly named to another theme when used, as in this specific example, with the Responsive name foremost. We're not telling you no specifically. We're telling everyone, "No one can submit a theme named Responsive II", because quite simply if we allow you to submit Responsive II we would be setting a precedent to allow someone else to submit Responsive III ... and that would be a different rabbit hole again.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Edward Caissie<br>aka Cais.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:14 PM, Trent Lapinski <<a href="mailto:trent@cyberchimps.com" target="_blank">trent@cyberchimps.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Daniel,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Why don’t the admins “let it go” and let me name my own products with my own brands. :-p<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>--Trent Lapinski<br>=============<br>CEO of CyberChimps Inc.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://cyberchimps.com/" target="_blank">http://CyberChimps.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Twitter @trentlapinski<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt'>Skype: mobiletrent</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sep 26, 2014, at 7:12 PM, Daniel Fenn <<a href="mailto:danielx386@gmail.com" target="_blank">danielx386@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt'>After watching this fight I felt like telling trent to listen to the<br>song "let it go" from the movie frozen :)<br><br>*Sits back and watches*<br><br>On 9/27/14, Emil Uzelac <<a href="mailto:emil@uzelac.me" target="_blank">emil@uzelac.me</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt'>probably the last time where TRT is turned into (politely said) brothel!<br><br>On Friday, September 26, 2014, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <<a href="mailto:philip@frumph.net" target="_blank">philip@frumph.net</a>><br>wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt'> Just going to giggle at this., and not cause any waves about it.<br><br>*From:* Otto <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','<a href="mailto:otto@ottodestruct.com" target="_blank">otto@ottodestruct.com</a>');><br>*Sent:* Friday, September 26, 2014 5:54 PM<br>*To:* Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers.<br><javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','<a href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a>');><br>*Subject:* Re: [theme-reviewers] Why can't theme authors have a second<br>version of a theme?<br><br> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Trent Lapinski <<a href="mailto:trent@cyberchimps.com" target="_blank">trent@cyberchimps.com</a><br><javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','<a href="mailto:trent@cyberchimps.com" target="_blank">trent@cyberchimps.com</a>');>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt'>The TRT has been over ruled by the WordPress Foundation, Matt himself,<br>and has been greatly influenced by Automattic and Audrey Capitol.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt'><br>Trent, let's be a bit more civil than that. The Foundation, Matt, and<br>those at Automattic have not done any such thing.<br><br>If Emil and the other admins want to change the rules, then nobody's<br>going<br>to stop them. I personally think it's a bad idea, and I'll say so, but<br>I'm<br>not going to use any form of veto power for something that is ultimately<br>so<br>silly.<br><br>When I want the rules to be changed, then I have to email those admins<br>and<br>convince them. Done it before.<br><br>The only time I've ever been really adamant about anything with regards<br>to<br>the review guidelines was on the security aspects. No using eval and<br>base64<br>and such. Things like that. Those are pretty obvious and sell themselves,<br>really. Those security things are the *only* thing I've ever pushed into<br>the guidelines (via theme-check) unilaterally.<br><br>My point was that talking to Emil and the other admins about it, in<br>ticket, is far from pointless. They do have the power to give you an<br>exception. They do have the power to change the guidelines. They do have<br>the power to ignore any or all of the guidelines based on their best<br>judgment. That's why they're the admins. I'm not going to stop them, nor<br>is<br>the Foundation, or Automattic. As for Matt, he likely doesn't have an<br>opinion on the matter either way and would probably have no issue with<br>it.<br><br>There is no need to be quite so extremely confrontational like this every<br>time you run into a minor disagreement. You don't need to convince me,<br>but<br>you probably could convince them.<br><br>-Otto<br><br><br>------------------------------<br>_______________________________________________<br>theme-reviewers mailing list<br><a href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a><br><javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','<a href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a>');><br><a href="http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers" target="_blank">http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt'><br><br>-- <br>Regards,<br>Daniel Fenn<br>_______________________________________________<br>theme-reviewers mailing list<br><a href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers" target="_blank">http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>theme-reviewers mailing list<br><a href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers" target="_blank">http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>theme-reviewers mailing list<br><a href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers" target="_blank">http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>_______________________________________________ theme-reviewers mailing list <a href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a> <a href="http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers" target="_blank">http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>theme-reviewers mailing list<br><a href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers" target="_blank">http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>