<div dir="ltr">The WordPress.org version of this theme is not restricted and does not expire.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 10 October 2013 00:12, Justin Tadlock <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:justin@justintadlock.com" target="_blank">justin@justintadlock.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
This code that the users can not copy, distribute, or modify is
given to users? It has been distributed to them? Does Pagelines'
terms restrict the further copying, modifying, or distribution of
this code?<br>
<br>
I don't care what happens with your Web site when you "use" (i.e.,
run) the code (in terms of GPL). I'm strictly asking about the
actual code, which is what is licensed under the GPL.<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div>On 10/9/2013 6:05 PM, Trent Lapinski
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Are users restricted
from copying, distributing, or modifying the code? </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div>Yes. PageLines uses a proprietary usage limiting API that
prevents users from copying, distributing and modifying their
paid features which are entirely software based (not a service).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The usage limitations are only lifted if the user pays $24 a
month for unlimited usage rights, and if you stop paying all of
your websites lose functionality no matter how long or how much
you've already paid into the system.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You can't actually buy the features, only "rent" them.</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">--Trent
Lapinski<br>
=============<br>
CEO of CyberChimps Inc<br>
<br>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:56 PM, Justin Tadlock <<a href="mailto:justin@justintadlock.com" target="_blank">justin@justintadlock.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> I'd like to point, once
again, to something I've already said on this matter.<br>
<br>
From the actual GPL license <a href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html" target="_blank"><http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html></a>:<br>
<br>
> "Activities other than copying, distribution and
modification are not covered by this License; they are
outside its scope."<br>
<br>
Are users restricted from copying, distributing, or
modifying the code? **Any** activity beyond that has
nothing to do with the GPL. If we want to continue talking
about the GPL, fine. But, please answer this question
first.<br>
<br>
If we want to discuss our policy on themes like this, that
would be a much more fruitful discussion, one in which I
think many of us would be more likely to agree on.<br>
<br>
<div>On 10/9/2013 5:49 PM, Trent
Lapinski wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>If the Theme Review Team and .org Admins are confused
by PageLines marketing then what do you think the
average customer thinks when they find out they're
stuck?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>People won't realize what PageLines "service"
actually means until PageLines flips the kill switch and
they lose access to features they already paid for and
can no longer update the website they've built. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your understanding of the GPL was correct according
to the GNU.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do not believe Otto and Nacin were incorrect in
their logic or reasoning, I think they simply didn't
understand the full application and deceptive nature of
what PageLines is actually doing until now.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We got clarification from the GNU on this issue so we
could bring about a resolution and properly educate
everyone on what applies here in this particular case
and for future similar cases.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As far as I'm aware we've never seen anyone try to do
this before, it's a very clever strategy to lock users
in that looks like a support service at first glance but
its much more then that.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's a usage limitation that contradicts users rights
as outlined in the GPL, and is also clearly against <a href="http://wordpress.org/" target="_blank">WordPress.org</a>
policy.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is nothing wrong with software as a service if
you are actually providing a service. What PageLines is
claiming is their software is the service, which is
simply not true. It's a marketing ploy that even a lot
of people here fell for which further illustrates the
deceptive nature of what they're trying to accomplish.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">--Trent
Lapinski<br>
=============<br>
CEO of CyberChimps Inc<br>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:20 PM, Srikanth Koneru <<a href="mailto:tskk79@gmail.com" target="_blank">tskk79@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>It is not against GPL, GPL gives you
legal permission to copy, distribute and/or
modify the software.<br>
</div>
You can do all that with their plugin.
(atleast pagelines say you can edit out the
restrictions)<br>
<br>
</div>
Its not already paid for, plugin is not just $8.<br>
<br>
</div>
I always thought this wasn't allowed as per WPORG
policy, but Otto/Nacin says it is so it is. Maybe
their higher up's may overrule them and until they
do its allowed under WPORG policy.<br>
<br>
</div>
Its not morally/ethically wrong because they are
putting the pricing plan upfront, users are buying
knowing that they have to pay a monthly fee.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at
3:41 AM, Trent Lapinski <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:trent@cyberchimps.com" target="_blank">trent@cyberchimps.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>Selling people a WordPress theme is
selling them a tool to build a website with.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How would you feel if you went to Home
Depot and were told you can't buy the hammer
you need to build a bird house, you instead
have to join Home Depots "subscription" to
get access to the hammer you need to build a
bird house, but you're only allowed to build
1 bird house with that hammer. If you want
to build more then 1 bird house you have to
pay signficnatly more money monthly to do
so.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you finishing building your bird house
and stop paying they will take your hammer
away, and also lock you out of features from
the birdhouse you already built and paid
for.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> That's what PageLines is doing, and
thats why this is against the GPL, <a href="http://wordpress.org/" target="_blank">WordPress.org</a> Policy,
and morally and ethically wrong.</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This has nothing to do with upgrade
fees, support, or anything else. That has
to do with limiting and crippling software
that customers have already paid for and
forcing them to continue to pay for
something or else they lose access to the
tools they need to maintain or update
their website in the future.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is not a support service, but
merely a clever way to lock users in
forever.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
--Trent Lapinski<br>
=============<br>
CEO of CyberChimps
Inc<br>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Bryan
Hadaway <<a href="mailto:bhadaway@gmail.com" target="_blank">bhadaway@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Whatever the case, I
feel we're actually getting much
closer to all being at least in
the same book, maybe not quite the
same page yet. But, much closer to
a reasonable and productive
understanding/conclusion.<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>My Blog: <a href="http://pross.org.uk/" target="_blank">http://pross.org.uk/</a><br>Plugins : <a href="http://pross.org.uk/plugins/" target="_blank">http://pross.org.uk/plugins/</a><br>
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