<div dir="ltr">The WordPress.org version of this theme is not restricted and does not expire.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 10 October 2013 00:12, Justin Tadlock <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:justin@justintadlock.com" target="_blank">justin@justintadlock.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    This code that the users can not copy, distribute, or modify is
    given to users?  It has been distributed to them?  Does Pagelines'
    terms restrict the further copying, modifying, or distribution of
    this code?<br>
    <br>
    I don't care what happens with your Web site when you "use" (i.e.,
    run) the code (in terms of GPL).  I'm strictly asking about the
    actual code, which is what is licensed under the GPL.<div><div class="h5"><br>
    <br>
    <div>On 10/9/2013 6:05 PM, Trent Lapinski
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      <div>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Are users restricted
            from copying, distributing, or modifying the code?  </div>
        </blockquote>
        <br>
      </div>
      <div>Yes. PageLines uses a proprietary usage limiting API that
        prevents users from copying, distributing and modifying their
        paid features which are entirely software based (not a service).</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>The usage limitations are only lifted if the user pays $24 a
        month for unlimited usage rights, and if you stop paying all of
        your websites lose functionality no matter how long or how much
        you've already paid into the system.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>You can't actually buy the features, only "rent" them.</div>
      <br>
      <div>
        <div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">


          <div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">

<span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
              <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                  <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                      <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                          <div style="word-wrap:break-word">--Trent
                            Lapinski<br>
                            =============<br>
                            CEO of CyberChimps Inc<br>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                        </span></div>
                    </span></div>
                </span></div>
            </span></div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div>
        <div>On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:56 PM, Justin Tadlock <<a href="mailto:justin@justintadlock.com" target="_blank">justin@justintadlock.com</a>>
          wrote:</div>
        <br>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          
          <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> I'd like to point, once
            again, to something I've already said on this matter.<br>
            <br>
            From the actual GPL license <a href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html" target="_blank"><http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html></a>:<br>
            <br>
            > "Activities other than copying, distribution and
            modification are not covered by this License; they are
            outside its scope."<br>
            <br>
            Are users restricted from copying, distributing, or
            modifying the code?  **Any** activity beyond that has
            nothing to do with the GPL.  If we want to continue talking
            about the GPL, fine.  But, please answer this question
            first.<br>
            <br>
            If we want to discuss our policy on themes like this, that
            would be a much more fruitful discussion, one in which I
            think many of us would be more likely to agree on.<br>
            <br>
            <div>On 10/9/2013 5:49 PM, Trent
              Lapinski wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              
              <div>If the Theme Review Team and .org Admins are confused
                by PageLines marketing then what do you think the
                average customer thinks when they find out they're
                stuck?</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>People won't realize what PageLines "service"
                actually means until PageLines flips the kill switch and
                they lose access to features they already paid for and
                can no longer update the website they've built. </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Your understanding of the GPL was correct according
                to the GNU.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>I do not believe Otto and Nacin were incorrect in
                their logic or reasoning, I think they simply didn't
                understand the full application and deceptive nature of
                what PageLines is actually doing until now.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>We got clarification from the GNU on this issue so we
                could bring about a resolution and properly educate
                everyone on what applies here in this particular case
                and for future similar cases.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>As far as I'm aware we've never seen anyone try to do
                this before, it's a very clever strategy to lock users
                in that looks like a support service at first glance but
                its much more then that.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>It's a usage limitation that contradicts users rights
                as outlined in the GPL, and is also clearly against <a href="http://wordpress.org/" target="_blank">WordPress.org</a>
                policy.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>There is nothing wrong with software as a service if
                you are actually providing a service. What PageLines is
                claiming is their software is the service, which is
                simply not true. It's a marketing ploy that even a lot
                of people here fell for which further illustrates the
                deceptive nature of what they're trying to accomplish.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">


                  <div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">

<span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
                      <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">
                          <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">
                              <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;font-size:medium">
                                  <div style="word-wrap:break-word">--Trent
                                    Lapinski<br>
                                    =============<br>
                                    CEO of CyberChimps Inc<br>
                                  </div>
                                </span></div>
                            </span></div>
                        </span></div>
                    </span></div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div>
                <div>On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:20 PM, Srikanth Koneru <<a href="mailto:tskk79@gmail.com" target="_blank">tskk79@gmail.com</a>>

                  wrote:</div>
                <br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>It is not against GPL, GPL gives you
                            legal permission to copy, distribute and/or
                            modify the software.<br>
                          </div>
                          You can do all that with their plugin.
                          (atleast pagelines say you can edit out the
                          restrictions)<br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        Its not already paid for, plugin is not just $8.<br>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                      I always thought this wasn't allowed as per WPORG
                      policy, but Otto/Nacin says it is so it is. Maybe
                      their higher up's may overrule them and until they
                      do its allowed under WPORG policy.<br>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                    Its not morally/ethically wrong because they are
                    putting the pricing plan upfront, users are buying
                    knowing that they have to pay a monthly fee.<br>
                  </div>
                  <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                    <br>
                    <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at
                      3:41 AM, Trent Lapinski <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:trent@cyberchimps.com" target="_blank">trent@cyberchimps.com</a>></span>
                      wrote:<br>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                        <div style="word-wrap:break-word">
                          <div>Selling people a WordPress theme is
                            selling them a tool to build a website with.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>How would you feel if you went to Home
                            Depot and were told you can't buy the hammer
                            you need to build a bird house, you instead
                            have to join Home Depots "subscription" to
                            get access to the hammer you need to build a
                            bird house, but you're only allowed to build
                            1 bird house with that hammer. If you want
                            to build more then 1 bird house you have to
                            pay signficnatly more money monthly to do
                            so.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>If you finishing building your bird house
                            and stop paying they will take your hammer
                            away, and also lock you out of features from
                            the birdhouse you already built and paid
                            for.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div> That's what PageLines is doing, and
                            thats why this is against the GPL, <a href="http://wordpress.org/" target="_blank">WordPress.org</a> Policy,
                            and morally and ethically wrong.</div>
                          <div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>This has nothing to do with upgrade
                              fees, support, or anything else. That has
                              to do with limiting and crippling software
                              that customers have already paid for and
                              forcing them to continue to pay for
                              something or else they lose access to the
                              tools they need to maintain or update
                              their website in the future.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>This is not a support service, but
                              merely a clever way to lock users in
                              forever.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">


                                    <div style="text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word;word-spacing:0px">

<span style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
                                        <div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                            <div style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                              <span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                <div style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                  <span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px">
                                                    <div style="word-wrap:break-word">
                                                      --Trent Lapinski<br>
                                                      =============<br>
                                                      CEO of CyberChimps
                                                      Inc<br>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </span></div>
                                              </span></div>
                                          </span></div>
                                      </span></div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Bryan
                                    Hadaway <<a href="mailto:bhadaway@gmail.com" target="_blank">bhadaway@gmail.com</a>>

                                    wrote:</div>
                                  <br>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div>
                                    <div dir="ltr">Whatever the case, I
                                      feel we're actually getting much
                                      closer to all being at least in
                                      the same book, maybe not quite the
                                      same page yet. But, much closer to
                                      a reasonable and productive
                                      understanding/conclusion.<br>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
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                                  </div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <br>
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                        <br>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                  </div>
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                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <br>
              <br>
              <fieldset></fieldset>
              <br>
              <pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
          </div>
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        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div></div></div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>My Blog: <a href="http://pross.org.uk/" target="_blank">http://pross.org.uk/</a><br>Plugins : <a href="http://pross.org.uk/plugins/" target="_blank">http://pross.org.uk/plugins/</a><br>

Themes: <a href="http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/profile/pross" target="_blank">http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/profile/pross</a>
</div>