<html><head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">@Chip can you contrast
this with a paid Akismet license?<br>
<br>
@Otto can you compare this with<span> a paid Akismet license</span>?<br>
<br>
Every time one of you guys posts Everything seems reasonable and I find
myself saying, oh, okay. Ultimately, the question is, does the
subscription requirement that was removed to the plugin violate GPL,
right?<br>
<br>
I can see merit in both arguments and I'd love to see this discussion
resolve.<br>
<blockquote style="border: 0px none;"
cite="mid:CAPdLKqfGwawXRF_zwa7iM_ttu0dKQwLdEfZ6hc2RT9g9TN-pPg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr"><div
style="display:table;width:100%;border-top:1px solid
#EDEEF0;padding-top:5px"> <div
style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px;"><img
photoaddress="chip@chipbennett.net" photoname="Chip Bennett"
src="cid:part1.06090408.09090609@danemorganmedia.com"
name="postbox-contact.jpg" height="25px" width="25px"></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net"
style="color:#737F92
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none
!important;">Chip Bennett</a></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;">
<font color="#9FA2A5"><span style="padding-left:6px">Friday, September
20, 2013 14:09</span></font></div></div></div>
<div style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody"><div dir="ltr">I think the
source of confusion stems from here: whether in the Theme, or in a
commercial Plugin, code is being distributed that *stops working*
(partially) if a subscription payment isn't maintained.<div>
<br></div><div>This isn't a case of SaaS. This is code, fully
encapsulated in the distributed work, that stops working, based on a
payment subscription tied to an API key. The sole purpose of the API key
is to determine if the subscription is current. As such, it is
reasonable to construe this model as a usage restriction - or at least,
to ask for clarification for why it doesn't construe a de facto usage
restriction. (And it is de facto, and not a true usage restriction,
because the code can be modified to de-couple the API key - but IMHO it
is contrary to free-software philosophy and principles to require the
user to modify code in order to ensure that it continues to work
as-distributed.)</div>
<div><br></div><div>As far as I can tell, nothing of this model has
changed from the original ticket. The subscription-based code has simply
been moved from the commercial version of the Theme to a commercial
Plugin.</div>
<div><br></div><div>While I am willing to be shown to be wrong,
out-voted, or over-ruled, I do not believe that this subscription model -
that requires a subscription payment not for a service but for already
distributed code - complies either with the letter of GPL, or with the
free-software principles that drive WPORG policy.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I think this is a legitimate question, that merits
discussion. I don't think that raising the question constitutes
"trolling". And I think that any reviewer is welcome to comment on any
ticket, whether that reviewer is the owner of the ticket or not. We are a
team, and work as a team.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I only ask that everyone be afforded the same degree
of respect in having that discussion, and that questions and comments
be taken at face value, rather than assumed to be "trolling".</div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><br></div>
<div>_______________________________________________<br>theme-reviewers
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<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr"><div
style="display:table;width:100%;border-top:1px solid
#EDEEF0;padding-top:5px"> <div
style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px;"><img
photoaddress="otto@ottodestruct.com" photoname="Otto"
src="cid:part2.00090208.00040200@danemorganmedia.com"
name="postbox-contact.jpg" height="25px" width="25px"></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:otto@ottodestruct.com"
style="color:#737F92
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none
!important;">Otto</a></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;">
<font color="#9FA2A5"><span style="padding-left:6px">Friday, September
20, 2013 13:57</span></font></div></div></div>
<div style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody"><pre wrap="">On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Trent Lapinski <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:trent@cyberchimps.com"><trent@cyberchimps.com></a> wrote:
</pre><blockquote type="cite"><pre wrap="">Are subscription based themes and plugins that limit usage if the user stops
paying allowed on .org?
</pre></blockquote><pre wrap=""><!---->
No, they are not.
</pre><blockquote type="cite"><pre wrap="">If no, then the theme shouldn't be allowed on .org until they change their
pricing model.
</pre></blockquote><pre wrap=""><!---->
The problem is that their theme no longer does this. Their pricing
model for another add-on piece of code they are selling is irrelevant
to the theme.
</pre><blockquote type="cite"><pre wrap="">This isn't an us vs. them situation. This is simply a "is this allowed?" and
so far not a single admin or .org representative seems to have an answer.
Can we please get a clarification so we can put this issue to rest once and
for all?
</pre></blockquote><pre wrap=""><!---->
I have already answered this, multiple times, in multiple ways. What
answer are you looking for that will satisfy you? How can I better
explain this? Tell me, please, because it's as clear as day to me.
-Otto
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</pre></div>
<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr"><div
style="display:table;width:100%;border-top:1px solid
#EDEEF0;padding-top:5px"> <div
style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px;"><img
photoaddress="trent@cyberchimps.com" photoname="Trent Lapinski"
src="cid:part3.04090003.00030901@danemorganmedia.com"
name="postbox-contact.jpg" height="25px" width="25px"></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:trent@cyberchimps.com"
style="color:#737F92
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none
!important;">Trent Lapinski</a></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;">
<font color="#9FA2A5"><span style="padding-left:6px">Friday, September
20, 2013 13:55</span></font></div></div></div>
<div style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody"><meta content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="content-type"><div>I've just been
watching this so far, and I have to admit I'm getting confused as well.</div><div><br></div><div>Are
subscription based themes and plugins that limit usage if the user
stops paying allowed on .org?</div><div><br></div><div><div>If no, then
the theme shouldn't be allowed on .org until they change their pricing
model.</div><div><br></div><div>If yes, can someone please explain how
this is GPL compatible?</div></div><div><br></div><div>This answer will
have a drastic effect on all upsell themes and pricing models for theme
shops. We need a clear yes or no answer with a defined explanation. </div><div><br></div><div>This
isn't an us vs. them situation. This is simply a "is this allowed?" and
so far not a single admin or .org representative seems to have an
answer. </div><div><br></div><div>Can we please get a clarification so
we can put this issue to rest once and for all?</div><div><br><div>--Trent
Lapinski</div><div>CEO of CyberChimps</div>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On
Sep 20, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Bryan Hadaway <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bhadaway@gmail.com">bhadaway@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote
type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><b>@Otto</b><br></div><div><br>Just
because you disagree with me does not make the issues I'm raising a
rant and it's not fair for you to be dismissive in that manner. Also,
I'm not concerned that this discussion is being ignored. I wasn't even
the one who started this discussion so clearly others have the same
concerns. Furthermore, are you even reading my responses? They're very
concise and backed up with facts, links, quotes etc.<br>
<br></div>The GPL is not just about code and never has been, that's only
part of it. I think it more importantly has to do with usage rights and
specifically to the point, our roles of protecting the users of this
community, hence additional WP policies and guidelines.<br>
<br></div>No, I haven't reviewed the new ticket theme code nor will I
nor should I, as I don't need to, that's completely irrelevant. The only
proof needed is right here:<br><br><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.pagelines.com/pricing/">http://www.pagelines.com/pricing/</a><br>
<br></div>You already made your point that "Well, marketing language is
one thing and the fine print is another..." (paraphrasing of course) and
I already agreed that is a good point generally, but doesn't apply here
as the theme developer has already clarified that it's not a support
limit, but a usage one.<br>
<br></div>I couldn't be more calm, clear and concise in my
communications. Nothing I've said has been frantic or hyperbole in the
least.<br><br></div>You say that I need to be more clear and backup what
I'm saying, well if you disagree with me, I invite you to do the same.
If you disagree with me, here's what you're saying:<br>
<br></div><b>1. Under the GPL, we're allowed to sell themes, but
restrict how many websites our customers are allowed to use those themes
on.</b><br><br></div><b>2. Under WP policy, if we submit plugins or
themes, we're not required to keep all our WordPress works GPL
compatible.</b><br>
<br></div>Is that what you're saying? And if not, I'm completely failing
to understand what you mean. Instead of just disagreeing with me, do
you have a rebuttal?<br></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>theme-reviewers
mailing list</span><br><span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a></span><br><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers">http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers</a></span><br></div></blockquote><pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre></div>
<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr"><div
style="display:table;width:100%;border-top:1px solid
#EDEEF0;padding-top:5px"> <div
style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px;"><img
photoaddress="bhadaway@gmail.com" photoname="Bryan Hadaway"
src="cid:part4.06080709.03020902@danemorganmedia.com"
name="postbox-contact.jpg" height="25px" width="25px"></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:bhadaway@gmail.com"
style="color:#737F92
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none
!important;">Bryan Hadaway</a></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;">
<font color="#9FA2A5"><span style="padding-left:6px">Friday, September
20, 2013 13:08</span></font></div></div></div>
<div style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><b>@Otto</b><br></div><div><br>Just
because you disagree with me does not make the issues I'm raising a
rant and it's not fair for you to be dismissive in that manner. Also,
I'm not concerned that this discussion is being ignored. I wasn't even
the one who started this discussion so clearly others have the same
concerns. Furthermore, are you even reading my responses? They're very
concise and backed up with facts, links, quotes etc.<br>
<br></div>The GPL is not just about code and never has been, that's only
part of it. I think it more importantly has to do with usage rights and
specifically to the point, our roles of protecting the users of this
community, hence additional WP policies and guidelines.<br>
<br></div>No, I haven't reviewed the new ticket theme code nor will I
nor should I, as I don't need to, that's completely irrelevant. The only
proof needed is right here:<br><br><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.pagelines.com/pricing/">http://www.pagelines.com/pricing/</a><br>
<br></div>You already made your point that "Well, marketing language is
one thing and the fine print is another..." (paraphrasing of course) and
I already agreed that is a good point generally, but doesn't apply here
as the theme developer has already clarified that it's not a support
limit, but a usage one.<br>
<br></div>I couldn't be more calm, clear and concise in my
communications. Nothing I've said has been frantic or hyperbole in the
least.<br><br></div>You say that I need to be more clear and backup what
I'm saying, well if you disagree with me, I invite you to do the same.
If you disagree with me, here's what you're saying:<br>
<br></div><b>1. Under the GPL, we're allowed to sell themes, but
restrict how many websites our customers are allowed to use those themes
on.</b><br><br></div><b>2. Under WP policy, if we submit plugins or
themes, we're not required to keep all our WordPress works GPL
compatible.</b><br>
<br></div>Is that what you're saying? And if not, I'm completely failing
to understand what you mean. Instead of just disagreeing with me, do
you have a rebuttal?<br></div>
<div>_______________________________________________<br>theme-reviewers
mailing list<br><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a><br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers">http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers</a><br></div></div>
<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr"><div
style="display:table;width:100%;border-top:1px solid
#EDEEF0;padding-top:5px"> <div
style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px;"><img
photoaddress="otto@ottodestruct.com" photoname="Otto"
src="cid:part2.00090208.00040200@danemorganmedia.com"
name="postbox-contact.jpg" height="25px" width="25px"></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:otto@ottodestruct.com"
style="color:#737F92
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none
!important;">Otto</a></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;">
<font color="#9FA2A5"><span style="padding-left:6px">Friday, September
20, 2013 12:07</span></font></div></div></div>
<div style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody"><div><!----><br>BTW, what you
are referring to here (the "pro" code) was in the<br>first version they
submitted. Are you saying that this same code<br>exists in the second
version, the one you actually wrote about in<br>ticket?<br><br>Because
if so, fine. But I was under the impression that they had<br>already
addressed that and moved the "pro" code into a separate plugin<br>which
they are selling separately. If true, this means two things:<br>a) They
fixed the problem well before your decision to criticize them<br>for it,
and<br>b) You never even looked at the new version of the theme before<br>posting
in the ticket about it.<br><br>Please correct me if I'm incorrect. What
exactly about the theme<br>currently is in violation of the rules?
Facts, not rhetoric.<br><br>-Otto<br>_______________________________________________<br>theme-reviewers
mailing list<br><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a><br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers">http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers</a><br></div></div>
</blockquote>
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