<p dir="ltr">Just the FYI. Since this was not a team decision we can vote either recommend or remove completely. So far this was not an issue and we are planning to keep that way. Nothing to require. We are the team, not one person making decisions. Sorry.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jul 16, 2013 3:50 AM, "Emil Uzelac" <<a href="mailto:emil@uzelac.me">emil@uzelac.me</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I've contacted all of the admins about this, we need to decide if<div>this is a team or one person decision only. Sorry, I cannot stand</div><div>the bureaucracy no more. And again, no disrespect to anyone and</div>
<div>taking all as my personal opinion only :)</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for the input :)</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Sami Keijonen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sami.keijonen@foxnet.fi" target="_blank">sami.keijonen@foxnet.fi</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I vote for no for only recommending analytics scripts, SEO stuff, Custom Post Types etc. in a theme. All the reasons have been discussed several times here and other places.<div>
<br></div><div>But this list really isn't best place for community to decide or vote something like this. There should be open poll for this. For example</div>
<div><br></div><div>1. SEO stuff in a theme</div><div><br></div><div>a) It's required not to use them</div><div>b) It's recommended not to use theme</div><div>c) I don't know or care</div></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<div><div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 16 July 2013 00:43, Emil Uzelac <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:emil@uzelac.me" target="_blank">emil@uzelac.me</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><font color="#000000">I would not base this on another Theme and yes it does seem unfair</font><div><font color="#000000">for new Themes. The only items that should be required are:</font></div><div><font color="#000000"><br>
</font></div><div><ul style="margin-top:0px;margin-left:18px;padding:0px;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px;list-style-position:initial;border:0px none;overflow:visible;font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;margin-right:0px!important;margin-bottom:0px!important">
<li style="margin:0px;padding:2px 0px 0px;border:0px none;overflow:visible"><font color="#000000">Removing or modifying non-presentational core hooks</font></li><li style="margin:0px;padding:2px 0px 0px;border:0px none;overflow:visible">
<font color="#000000">Disabling the admin toolbar</font></li><li style="margin:0px;padding:2px 0px 0px;border:0px none;overflow:visible"><font color="#000000">Resource compression/caching</font></li></ul><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="line-height:18.1875px"><br>
</span></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="line-height:18.1875px">robots.txt can be stopped via uploaded, so that part does not need</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="line-height:18.1875px">to be in. </span></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="line-height:18.1875px"><br>
</span></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="line-height:18.1875px">And we can recommend the rest:</span></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="line-height:18.1875px"><br>
</span></font></div><div><ul style="margin-top:0px;margin-left:18px;padding:0px;font-size:13px;line-height:18.1875px;list-style-position:initial;border:0px none;overflow:visible;font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;margin-right:0px!important;margin-bottom:0px!important">
<li style="margin:0px;padding:2px 0px 0px;border:0px none;overflow:visible"><font color="#000000">Analytics scripts</font></li><li style="margin:0px;padding:2px 0px 0px;border:0px none;overflow:visible"><font color="#000000">SEO options (meta tags, page title, post titles, robots.txt, etc.)</font></li>
<li style="margin:0px;padding:2px 0px 0px;border:0px none;overflow:visible"><font color="#000000">Content Sharing buttons/links</font></li><li style="margin:0px;padding:2px 0px 0px;border:0px none;overflow:visible"><font color="#000000">Custom post-content shortcodes</font></li>
<li style="margin:0px;padding:2px 0px 0px;border:0px none;overflow:visible"><font color="#000000">Custom Post Types</font></li><li style="margin:0px;padding:2px 0px 0px;border:0px none;overflow:visible"><font color="#000000">Custom Taxonomies</font></li>
</ul></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="line-height:18.1875px"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="line-height:18.1875px">Good, not, what do you think? </span></font></div>
<div><div><div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Harish <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:me@harishchouhan.com" target="_blank">me@harishchouhan.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-IN" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">This sounds good for existing themes. However it would then seem unfair for new themes as old themes would have more features and the new once would feel of less value. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Instead, let us consider based on say popular themes such as Responsive, etc. and whatever features they have, make them acceptable for all new themes and lets just end that. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#404040"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#404040">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#404040">Harish </span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0d0d0d"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> theme-reviewers [mailto:<a href="mailto:theme-reviewers-bounces@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">theme-reviewers-bounces@lists.wordpress.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Emil Uzelac<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tue 16 July 13 02:41 AM</span></p><div><div><br><b>To:</b> Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers.<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin territory?<u></u><u></u></div>
</div><p></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Would it be acceptable if <a href="http://make.wordpress.org/themes/guidelines/guidelines-plugin-territory/" target="_blank">this guideline</a> does not apply to the Themes that are already in repository?<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><i>Plugin Territory Guidelines are required for new Themes, and recommended for existing Themes.</i><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">If there are no security issues, conflict with the core etc.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Am I asking too much, what do you think?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">P.S. Also only few of us are discussing this, are the rest not interested, affected, what's up?<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Emil <u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <<a href="mailto:philip@frumph.net" target="_blank">philip@frumph.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Excuse me, Mr. Bennett. As part of the ‘community’; there have been discussions for and against, yet YOU working OUT of the team made the determination as a requirement. You completely ignored the make WordPress themes conversation when it was first discussed and decided ON YOUR OWN. In an email with other’s they were still under the impression that it was ‘recommended’ still up until several weeks ago when it came back into topic of conversation.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">While it would be beneficial for you to believe you are in a team, your actions have stated otherwise. From the very beginning to now.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" title="chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">Chip Bennett</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Monday, July 15, 2013 8:27 AM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" title="theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers.</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Re: [theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin territory?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">For the record: the Theme Review Admins work as a team. There is no "leader". It has always been that way, and will continue to be that way, unless and until we are told otherwise. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The community rep is just that: a liaison to communicate with the rest of the WordPress community. The community rep doesn't have to be one of the Admins (and I think it would be great if a non-admin would want to take up that role sometime).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">What we are engaging in at the moment is a *discussion*. As part of that discussion, Emil and I are expressing our opinions. It is not required that all Admins hold to the same opinion (nor would such be a benefit). <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <<a href="mailto:philip@frumph.net" target="_blank">philip@frumph.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">End users have lived with it so far, there haven’t been any major complaints or suggestions on the forums to say the contrary. I believe you are over emphasizing the severity.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">There are people including myself that do not agree with this and you personally are not listening to the community. Which makes things difficult because you apparently have no one to answer to. Last I checked Emil was lead at the moment and you are not. When the community itself or members thereof do not like the results that are happening there needs to be someone that can be talked with that can mediate the situation and make a determination.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">It would behoove you to not be as adamant as you are. Consider a compromise then, most of our ‘concerns’ with the myself and others who have had themes on the repo for a predominate amount of time would not like to see our end users have the headache that it will cause to add an additional plugin. Hostings like 1and1 and some others are very limited with their memory usage; <strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">so consider making it so that all NEW themes as a requirement to not include said plugin territory options and things in priority 1 should be a bit more lenient in reviewing updates</span></strong>.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I am already maxed out in tech support as it is where I do not have time nor the inclination to sit here and worry about 20,000+ people who are going to be emailing me or adding post after post on the forums concerning a new update which destroys their site. Currently I already point them to the github instead of the repo. I am positive that the repo was there for theme’s to be able to be stored and able to be a helpful tool for the end user and not a hindrance.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" title="chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">Chip Bennett</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Monday, July 15, 2013 5:12 AM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" title="theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">Discussion list for WordPress theme reviewers.</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Re: [theme-reviewers] Webmaster Tools IDs - plugin territory?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div><div><div><div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Those when switching to one theme or another will have some things no longer work – and that is fine. There are plenty of ways, avenues and programming that you can take to include those features into the theme you switch to.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I disagree with "and that is fine." Most end users aren't developers, and won't have the skills or desire to take advantage of the "plenty of ways, avenues and programming" to add missing functionality to their new Theme.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The single most important party in this consideration is not the Theme developer, or the Theme reviewers, but rather the Theme's end users. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The BIGGEST idea about that the don’t-worry-about-it group’s main objective is to make the theme review process easier and faster to get through. The biggest thing that people get hung up on returning day after day to review themes is how time consuming they are to go through. We also believe that it’s not the theme review team’s responsibility to control that aspect of allowing a theme to have a feature or not, that is up to the core dev’s to make that determination.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The core team has made it the Theme Review Team's responsibility. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">And I disagree that what you're suggesting would make Theme reviews easier. Why would a Theme review be easier if the Theme can include any manner of arbitrary functionality? Allowing functionality that goes beyond presentation of user content just means that much more code that a reviewer has to review, understand, and test. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Use all of the plugins, theme unit test and requirements for the backlinks and other things. Do the cursory views of everything that’s important and move em through the review process. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">That's not sufficient for the end user. Code needs to be secure. Included functionality needs to work properly.I contend that those considerations *are* important to end users. Thus, everything that a Theme indicates that it does needs to be tested during the review process.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The single most important party in this consideration is not the Theme developer, or the Theme reviewers, but rather the Theme's end users.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></span></div>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><br>_______________________________________________<br>theme-reviewers mailing list<br><a href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a><br>
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</div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>_______________________________________________<br>theme-reviewers mailing list<br><a href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span><font color="#888888">-- <br>Sami Keijonen<br>Fox Holding Oy<br><a href="mailto:sami.keijonen@foxnet.fi" target="_blank">sami.keijonen@foxnet.fi</a><br>
<a href="http://www.foxnet.fi" target="_blank">www.foxnet.fi</a>
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