<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>@ Emil: I agree that the second implementation which uses wp_head is relative harmless and there is only little impact on the user's experience.<br><br></div>I guess what Chip meant is that if the option is used, the user will still loose the tracking functionality by changing to another theme. And that can be bad for the user's experience - especially for WordPress beginners.<br>
<br></div>After all it's a question what we can expect from the average WordPress user.<br><br></div>I would suggest to allow header/footer scripts, but if developers want to use such options they should be required/recommended to point out some information in the option's description that the scripts will be gone by a theme change. <br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/6/18 Emil Uzelac <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:emil@uzelac.me" target="_blank">emil@uzelac.me</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I am tired and probably not thinking this right, but what Chip is trying to say<div>is that "we" have no room for "funny" stuff in Themes. </div><div><br></div><div>I have (had) a pretty young Theme with <i>677,495</i> downloads so far, but the </div>
<div>codes "my" Theme have are very much different from most* of the Themes.</div><div><br></div><div>GA codes are not integrated, unless user goes and pastes the actual GA JS in it. </div><div>
<br></div><div>Meaning that "empty" fields are not the same as the codes where all "you" need</div><div>to do is to paste (enter) GA UA code in the order to complete, have GA JS</div><div>
code working. And that's what I believe is happening lately. </div><div><br></div><div>So once again:</div><div><br></div><div><b>This</b></div><div><br></div><div><pre style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Consolas,'Liberation Mono',Courier,monospace;color:rgb(51,51,51);line-height:18px">
<div style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 10px;border:0px"> <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;color:rgb(153,153,136);font-style:italic"><!-- Google Analytics: change UA-XXXXX-X to be your site's ID. --></span></div>
<div style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 10px;border:0px"> <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;color:rgb(0,0,128)"><script></span></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 10px;border:0px">
<span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-weight:bold">var</span> <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">_gaq</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-weight:bold">=</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">[[</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;color:rgb(221,17,68)">'_setAccount'</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">,</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;color:rgb(221,17,68)">'UA-XXXXX-X'</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">],[</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;color:rgb(221,17,68)">'_trackPageview'</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">]];</span></div>
<div style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 10px;border:0px"> <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">(</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-weight:bold">function</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">(</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">d</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">,</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">t</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">){</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-weight:bold">var</span> <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">g</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-weight:bold">=</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">d</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">.</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">createElement</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">(</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">t</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">),</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">s</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-weight:bold">=</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">d</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">.</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">getElementsByTagName</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">(</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">t</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">)[</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;color:rgb(0,153,153)">0</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">];</span></div>
<div style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 10px;border:0px"> <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">g</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">.</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">src</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-weight:bold">=</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;color:rgb(221,17,68)">'//<a href="http://www.google-analytics.com/ga.js" target="_blank">www.google-analytics.com/ga.js</a>'</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">;</span></div>
<div style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 10px;border:0px"> <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">s</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">.</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">parentNode</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">.</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">insertBefore</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">(</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">g</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">,</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">s</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">)}(</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;color:rgb(0,134,179)">document</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">,</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;color:rgb(221,17,68)">'script'</span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px">));</span></div>
<div style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 10px;border:0px"> <span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;color:rgb(0,0,128)"></script></span></div></pre></div><div><br></div>
<div><b>is not the same</b> as empty field where user can paste the entire JS, which would be something </div><div>along the line of:</div><div><br></div><div><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;word-wrap:break-word">function responsive_site_statistics_tracker() {
global $responsive_options;
if (!empty($responsive_options['site_statistics_tracker'])) {
echo $responsive_options['site_statistics_tracker'];
}
}
add_action('wp_head', 'responsive_site_statistics_tracker');</pre></div><div><br></div><div>And if "you" don't, well nothing happens, no harm done, let's use the plugin.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Responsive is just an example, maybe not the perfect one, but you'll get my point.</div><div><br></div><div>Same goes for social and other stuff too.</div><div><br></div>
<div>Chip et al., please correct me if I am wrong?</div><div><br></div><div><b>P.S.</b> Other way around was never "allowed", at least not to my knowledge.</div><div><b>P.P.S</b> Something like "Responsive" as an example does not and will not</div>
<div>"hurt" the user's experience, nor will stand in way of plugins to do their</div><div>job.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Emil </div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 2:33 AM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:philip@frumph.net" target="_blank">philip@frumph.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Calibri'">
<div>This is true, there was a topic on Grandfathered themes and the outcome was
as you said.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>With the new methodology and guidelines I don’t see how people could have
an understanding which themes to do that with, except I always considered the
ones already on the repo were like that when I was doing reviews.</div>
<div> </div>
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<th scope="row">Anyone have any idea’s how to make a consideration mark for
that? .. one of my themes has an alltime download of </th>
<td><font face="Times New Roman">468,351</font></td></tr></tbody></table>
<div> </div>
<div>Pretty sure there’s only a about ten thousand actually using it.
(easel) I haven’t updated ComicPress because it’s a ‘speciality’
theme and pretty sure will not pass these stringent rules if someone didn’t
grandfather it when reviewing. On github I made it do all the
necessary things for the wp_head and functions.php changes; but there’s a ton
that it does beyond. ComicPress itself has around a few tens of
thousands of users using it for their comics; although I wrote Comic Easel
(plugin) to replace it and an easy Migrator plugin CP2CE to migrate from
ComicPress to Comic Easel, people really are not lining up to do that.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So.. what types of things can happen to make it easier to acknowledge
grandfather’d themes?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Chip?</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div style="font-size:small;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';display:inline;font-weight:normal">
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="weavertheme@gmail.com" href="mailto:weavertheme@gmail.com" target="_blank">Bruce Wampler</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 17, 2013 9:00 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a>
</div><div><div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [theme-reviewers] Fwd: Plugin
territory</div></div></div></div></div>
<div> </div></div><div><div>
<div style="font-size:small;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';display:inline;font-weight:normal">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>OK - the theme in question is MY theme, Weaver II.<br><br></div>And the
theme has tens of thousands of users. It has been in the repository for
years.<br><br></div>So, as far as I understand, long existing themes are
grandfathered for many of the newer requirements.<br><br></div>When it was first
approved, many of the the things is does were allowed in
themes.<br><br></div>But it is still important to update bugs, keep up to date
with new WP features, etc. But it would be totally unfair and literally
disastrous, for my many thousands of users to have their sites break by forcing
the long existing theme to comply with new standards. Note that most of the
issues today would involve the many shortcodes provided with the theme that
might be called plugin territory today.<br><br></div>
<div>Note that my new theme, Aspen, does comply strictly with the new standards
- nothing in plugin territory.<br><br>In the mean time, there were some
important bug fixes in the submitted version, and approval is being held up by a
new reviewer.<br><br></div>
<div>Bruce Wampler<br></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Josh Pollock <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jpollock412@gmail.com" target="_blank">jpollock412@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">@Philip- I sent my last message for reading yours. You've given
several examples of when the no plugin option might be better than the plugin
option, which is in general better. Your last example especially illustrates
how this can hurt developers and users. If a user is looking
specifically for themes that can add the tracking code, and list it as a
feature--because they need that, but need to limit their plugin count--they
are not going to choose a theme that doesn't specifically say it has an
option to add header/ footer scripts such as tracking codes, even though it
does. Now the user missed out on a good theme, and the developer's theme got
used one less time. Many of us are giving away themes in hopes of the end user
paying us for an upsell version, theme customization, or a fancy child theme.
Every time we loose a user of our free theme, we loose a potential customer
for our services that we charge for.</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Philip M. Hofer
(Frumph) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:philip@frumph.net" target="_blank">philip@frumph.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:12pt">
<div>the Google Analyticator plugin is so awesome; there’s no
comparison.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>.. on the fence with SEO; I haven’t seen one that is done right.. yoast
is close; but the biggest problem is ones like all-in-one generate the data
for each and every thing on every page load; which is bad; that’s a lot of
processing going on. I think to be done right it needs to
incorporate saving SEO data within meta fields and other things and not
always regenerated on each page load.. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Also, there’s the ‘load’ of the plugin which hasn’t been discussed;
each plugin contains a higher memory footprint for each and every plugin
that is loaded. While little things like the google
analytics code being so simple and all; having it as an increase in the
memory footprint (execution time on server; mem used etc) might
actually be a benefit to the user.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Plugin (saves in data, generates extra resource for each plugin used)
.. or one single line storing the Google Code which executes with the
theme.. uh... yeah.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>There are a couple services that some clients of mine are on that those
users cannot have more then 4-5 plugins active because the footprint of
wordpress is higher then the amount of memory those services give in
available processing/memory.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div style="FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div><font face="Calibri" size="3"></font> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="chip@chipbennett.net" href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">Chip Bennett</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 17, 2013 3:27 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">[theme-reviewers]</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [theme-reviewers] Fwd: Plugin
territory</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style="FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">No, I'm saying that a Theme option to allow the user to insert
arbitrary scripts or custom CSS is perfectly fine, but that a Theme
*instructing* the user to use that option to insert analytics code is not,
because it is functionally equivalent to the Theme providing an option
intentionally for inserting analytics code.
<div> </div>
<div>We're not making their lives *more* complicated; we've making their
lives *less* complicated - because analytics and SEO become a matter of "set
and forget", regardless of what Theme is being used. (For the typical user,
the question isn't *if* that user will switch Themes in the future, but
rather *when* that user will switch Themes.) Further, I'll go out on a limb
and say that a Plugin intended specifically for analytics code and/or SEO is
going to be *better* coded, and *more* likely to be kept up-to-date, than
analogous options in a given Theme.</div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Josh Pollock <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jpollock412@gmail.com" target="_blank">jpollock412@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">Chip-
<div> </div>
<div>Am I understanding you correctly that if a theme has an option called
"add header script", that is OK, but if it has an option called "add
analytics code to header" that is not OK, even though they do the exact
same thing? That doesn't make sense.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>This requirement is making users add one more plugin to worry about
updating, checking for incompatibilities with, etc. We're talking about a
class of users that doesn't know to/ isin't comfortable doing something as
simple as putting the tracking code in a function hooked to
wp_header/footer or just cut and paste it into header.php. These aren't
people who can evaluate a plugin to see if it is adding the analytics the
right way or not... Why are we making their lives more complicated instead
of judging the "add analytics" option the same way as the forbidden "add
header script" option, which we allow as long as it is implemented
properly?</div><span><font color="#888888">
<div> </div>
<div>-Josh</div></font></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Chip Bennett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">chip@chipbennett.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">I would require the text to be changed, if it says "add
your analytics code", since adding analytics code is Plugin
territory.</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Srikanth Koneru
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tskk79@gmail.com" target="_blank">tskk79@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>some are labelled "add your analytics code" and some just "add
your header/footer scripts".<br></div>
<div>I approved them without pointing it out as i wasn't sure of the
rule.<br></div></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Chip Bennett
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">chip@chipbennett.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">How do you know that the end user will use them for
that?</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Srikanth
Koneru <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tskk79@gmail.com" target="_blank">tskk79@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">because they are used to add analytics scripts or
similar to header/footer?<br><br></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Chip
Bennett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">chip@chipbennett.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">Why would they?
<div> </div>
<div>(Not being sarcastic; I'm honestly asking.)</div></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Srikanth
Koneru <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tskk79@gmail.com" target="_blank">tskk79@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">do textarea field's meant for header/footer
scripts fall under plugin territory?<br></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:57 PM, Chip
Bennett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">chip@chipbennett.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">Themes are always required to conform to the
guidelines as current when the Theme is submitted.
Guidelines can and do change, and previous reviews can and
do miss required criteria. I would note all of the required
issues, and hold the ticket open to allow for developer
response.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:03 PM, devcorn <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wp@devcorn.com" target="_blank">wp@devcorn.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br></div></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">hi,
<div>
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I was reviewing one theme and it has so many.. many
things which comes under plugin territory
shortcodes, SEO, download/upload... etc</div>
<div> </div>
<div>But the theme was previously approved, actually
always approved... so I don't know what should I do with
it. I don't want to disappoint the author , I can approve
it with note to fix all these stuff in next version, but
to my surprise. I downloaded and test old version and they
had all of it.. so I don't know if I missed something as I
joined WTRT last week only.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div>Ash</div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div> </div></div></div>
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