<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">It's the Theme's responsibility to ensure readability and usability.</blockquote>
<div>I agree. Thats why i believe tinymce button that adds span/div wrappers with CSS classes's place is themes.. not plugins. Plugins cant predict which styles loaded but themes know which styles loaded.</div><div><br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">In that case, that styling of post content should be accounted for via style.css.</blockquote>
<div>I agree. Its why we have css classes. Css classes are defined styling that you know what will do <b>if you use it. </b>In my theme, all styling is doing with classes.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
There's no reason for users to wrap post content with DIVs/SPANs just to "improve readability and usability". </blockquote><div> I dont agree. Themes, plugins or even wordpress cant predict user content's job fully. Lets say;</div>
<div>I want 2 button type link in my post content. Those 2 must be different looking (color,size etc) because of usability. How can you predict which links in post content should those buttons? Of course you will use span/div wrappers with CSS classes. </div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Chip Bennett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">chip@chipbennett.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">In that case, that styling of post content should be accounted for via style.css. There's no reason for users to wrap post content with DIVs/SPANs just to "improve readability and usability". It's the Theme's responsibility to ensure readability and usability.</div>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:unsalkorkmaz@gmail.com" target="_blank">unsalkorkmaz@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:24px">What is the *purpose* of the span/div wrappers with CSS classes?</span></blockquote>
<div><br></div></div><div>Styling content with results of improving readability and usability of web site? </div><div><div><div> </div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Chip Bennett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">chip@chipbennett.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>> <span style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:24px">I believe tinymce button thats just adding span,div with classes can be theme territory. </span><div>
<br></div></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, helvetica, arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12px;line-height:24px">Let's finish that discussion here, before moving to the ticket.</span></font></div><div>
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:24px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:24px">What is the *purpose* of the span/div wrappers with CSS classes?</span></div>
</div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:unsalkorkmaz@gmail.com" target="_blank">unsalkorkmaz@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Released 1.1.1 version:<div><p style="vertical-align:baseline;line-height:24px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12px;font-family:'Helvetica Neue',helvetica,arial,sans-serif;margin:0px 0px 10px;outline:0px;border:0px;padding:0px">
<a href="http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11449" target="_blank">http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11449</a> <br>Removed plugin territory features except tinymce button. I believe tinymce button thats just adding span,div with classes can be theme territory. Thanks everyone for your time</p>
<div><div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Chip Bennett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">chip@chipbennett.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">If there is no semantic value, then why would the user want to wrap content in <span class="foo bar"></span>? There is obviously some *use* or *purpose* for the user explicitly wrapping content in a container with defined CSS selectors. The *nature* of that intended purpose helps to clarify whether it is Theme territory or Plugin territory.<div>
<br></div><div>Sometimes questions don't have a single, black-and-white answer, but instead depend on context. (For example: post custom meta boxes are not inherently Theme or Plugin territory; that determination depends on the intended use of the defined custom post meta data handled by those meta boxes.) So, by asking, "what is the semantic meaning of the code added by the TinyMCE buttons?" I'm trying to drive to the intended purpose, to ensure that we're all discussing the question in the correct context.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I mentioned shortcodes among a list of other things in the Theme that are Plugin territory. Yes, it is a separate issue from the question of TinyMCE buttons, but in your OP, you said, "there are no shortcodes, only added TinyMCE buttons". I was merely pointing out that "there are no shortcodes" is untrue, because the Theme does define shortcodes (along with many other things that are Plugin territory).</div>
</div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:unsalkorkmaz@gmail.com" target="_blank">unsalkorkmaz@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
Let's back up a bit: why would <span class="foo bar"></span> be added to post content to begin with? What is the semantic meaning of such a container?</blockquote>
<div><div></div></div><div><span style="font-family:sans-serif;line-height:19.1875px"><br></span></div></div><div><span style="font-family:sans-serif;line-height:19.1875px">Seriously?</span></div><div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;line-height:19.1875px"><br></span></div><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Span_and_div" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Span_and_div</a><div><span style="line-height:19.1875px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">In </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML" title="HTML" style="line-height:19.1875px;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif;text-decoration:none;background-image:none" target="_blank">HTML</a><span style="line-height:19.1875px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif">, the </span><b style="line-height:19.1875px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif"><code style="font-family:monospace,Courier;background-color:rgb(249,249,249)">span</code></b><span style="line-height:19.1875px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif"> and </span><b style="line-height:19.1875px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif"><code style="font-family:monospace,Courier;background-color:rgb(249,249,249)">div</code></b><span style="line-height:19.1875px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif"> </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_element" title="HTML element" style="line-height:19.1875px;color:rgb(11,0,128);font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif;text-decoration:none;background-image:none" target="_blank">elements</a><span style="line-height:19.1875px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif"> are used for generic organizational or stylistic applications, typically when extant meaningful elements have exhausted their purpose.</span></div>
<div><b style="line-height:19.1875px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif"><code style="font-family:monospace,Courier;background-color:rgb(249,249,249)">span</code></b><span style="line-height:19.1875px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif"> and </span><span style="line-height:19.1875px;font-size:13px;font-family:sans-serif"><code style="font-family:monospace,Courier;background-color:rgb(249,249,249)"><b>div</b></code></span><span style="line-height:19.1875px;font-family:sans-serif"> is not semantic.. its for design. Colors, boxes, icons are not semantic.. Those are design that shows content better. </span></div>
<div>
<div><span style="line-height:19.1875px;font-family:sans-serif"><br></span></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">Are we talking about core-defined shortcodes or not? If they're defined in core, why do they need to be defined in the Theme?</span></blockquote>
<div><br></div></div><div> Original question:</div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">Hi,<br>
</span>My theme:<br><a href="http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11437" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11437<br></a>Theme is adding custom tinymce button that adds css code for design elements. There is no shortcode or something.. just css code. <br>
Its allowed in themes right?</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>There is a tinymce button added with theme. That button adds css code when you click it. ITs not adding shortcode and esspecially i am saying its not adding any shortcode. I NEVER said theme does not support any shortcode. Theme is supporting 3 shortcode thats wordpress default shortcodes: audio, video, gallery. Why did you link shortcodes file and said "aha there is shortcode"? What is purpose here?</div>
<div><div>
<div><span style="line-height:19.1875px;font-family:sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Chip Bennett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">chip@chipbennett.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Let's back up a bit: why would <span class="foo bar"></span> be added to post content to begin with? What is the semantic meaning of such a container?</div>
<div><div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Daniel Tara <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:contact@onedesigns.com" target="_blank">contact@onedesigns.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Speaking a bit more generally I believe there always be this conflict between content generation and content presentation. Content generation is plugin territory but if plugins also add their own styling what are the chances that styling fits a random theme. I say not styled content is better than ugly styled content. I think we should allow more middle ground here.<span><font color="#888888"><div>
<br></div><div>Daniel</div></font></span><div><div><div> <br><div><div>On Mar 3, 2013, at 4:10 PM, Ünsal Korkmaz wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">Thank you for review but i mean tinymce does not adding shortcode, it adds css code.<div>
<a href="http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/shortcodes.php" target="_blank">http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/shortcodes.php</a></div>
<div>Those shortcodes are wordpress's default shortcodes. audio, gallery, video.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Chip Bennett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">chip@chipbennett.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hmm, actually, there *are* shortcodes:<div><a href="http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/shortcodes.php" target="_blank">http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/shortcodes.php</a><br>
</div>
<div><br></div><div>And this is definitely Plugin territory:</div><div><a href="http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/remove-comments-absolute.php" target="_blank">http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/remove-comments-absolute.php</a><br>
</div><div><br></div><div>And a good deal of this is Plugin territory:</div><div><a href="http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/fix.php" target="_blank">http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/fix.php</a><br>
</div><div><br></div><div>And this is also probably Plugin territory (though a bit of a gray area):</div><div><a href="http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/custom-sharing-buttons.php" target="_blank">http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/custom-sharing-buttons.php</a><br>
</div><div><a href="http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/custom-facebook-comments.php" target="_blank">http://themes.svn.wordpress.org/firmasite/1.1.0/functions/custom-facebook-comments.php</a><br></div>
<div><br>
</div><div>But, for the TinyMCE buttons: my initial reaction would be to say that they also are probably Plugin territory. What do the buttons do? What do they add to the post content? Wrap selected content in <span class="foo bar"></span> tags? Sure, that degrades more gracefully than un-parsed shortcodes, but it would still result in a bunch of unused markup scattered throughout the user's posts after switching Themes. <b>Thus, I would say that the TinyMCE buttons are also Plugin territory</b>. I would recommend defining the *styles* for the CSS classes added via the TinyMCE buttons, but make the underlying TinyMCE button functionality itself a Plugin.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Chip</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Ünsal Korkmaz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:unsalkorkmaz@gmail.com" target="_blank">unsalkorkmaz@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>Hi,<div>My theme:</div><div><a href="http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11437" target="_blank">http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11437</a></div>
<div>Theme is adding custom tinymce button that adds css code for design elements. There is no shortcode or something.. just css code. </div>
<div>Its allowed in themes right?</div>
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