<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Otto <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:otto@ottodestruct.com">otto@ottodestruct.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im">On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Chip Bennett <<a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net">chip@chipbennett.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> Otto (and anyone else in a similar capacity who has made rather public<br>
> statements critical of the Theme Review process, guidelines, and team),<br>
> I find it completely unacceptable for anyone in any official (or<br>
> quasi-official) capacity to publicly redress *volunteers* who are making a<br>
> good-faith effort to perform the task of reviewing Themes.<br>
> Frumph's review of Matala was a good-faith effort, in line with the<br>
> Guidelines as they currently exist. To call his "behavior" (a characteristic<br>
> that plays no part in reviews; perhaps you mean "performance"?)<br>
> "unacceptable" is itself unacceptable, and flat-out wrong.<br>
<br>
</div>I'm finding the theme review process itself unacceptable at this<br>
point. While it's true that theme reviews are necessary, I'm seeing<br>
themes get rejected for little, piddly, nonsensical things. </blockquote><div><br></div><div>I've asked before, and I'll ask again: please point out the Themes that are being "rejected", and for merely "little, piddly, nonsensical things."</div>
<div><br></div><div>In reality, they are "not accepted" in their current form, and the developer is asked to address certain issues, and re-submit the Theme. Hardly a "rejection", that. Further, the vast majority of "not-accepted" Themes have issues that exceed "little, piddly, nonsensical".</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">And those<br>
theme authors will likely never come back, and we've lost people to<br>
our community more or less forever.<br>
<br>
This is acceptable to you? You want the process to turn people away<br>
from our site?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If such people are utterly unwilling to support the community's efforts to ensure high-quality, supported Themes are available in the official Theme repository, what does that say about their willingness to be contributing members of the community? </div>
<div><br></div><div>Further, the vast majority of the complaints from Theme developers - at least the vocal, high-profile developers who have criticized the review process - have been related to the process itself (the things we don't control), as opposed to the Guidelines and conduct of reviews (the things we do control). </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im"><br>
> Feedback and criticism is ALWAYS welcome. We're trying to do our best.<br>
> Please be respectful to our time and effort (and good faith) as volunteers.<br>
<br>
</div>Theme authors aren't going to always be that way.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Of course not. But *you* can be. And, given your capacity, I daresay we can *expect* you to be. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im"><br>
> Bring criticism first to the team (ideally, using this mail list), rather<br>
> than making team members look bad publicly, as well as publicly undercutting<br>
> our efforts here.<br>
<br>
</div>Well then you tell me? How can I change things? I thought we'd had<br>
this discussion a week ago and that the problem wouldn't recur. But<br>
now both you and Phil have essentially done the same thing, and I'm<br>
wondering if there is some kind of underlying problem with the process<br>
itself here.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>What specific problem has re-occurred? </div><div><br></div><div>If you're talking about resolving tickets as "not-accepted", well then, you're just going to have to accept that, until you get all of the Trac/SVN changes implemented, we don't have a whole lot of choice. </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br>
Are you guys only applying some list of guidelines rigidly? Or are you<br>
simply not wanting to help theme authors at all, and close down and<br>
reject all discussion based on that?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>What you call "rigid", I call "objective".</div><div><br></div><div>And, please: will you dispense with the term "reject"? It doesn't appear anywhere in this process, except for your own continued, specious use. Far from rejecting all discussion, we actively solicit discussion.</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br>
You tell me, man. I'm frustrated and annoyed here, and yet also<br>
saddened because I can see what this sort of thing can do to a<br>
community.<br>
<br>
I don't know how to solve the problem. So help me.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Keep bringing up - to the team directly - specific issues and problems. We can't really work effectively through nebulous and universal proclamations of the overall broken-ness of the system. </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im"><br>
> We understand that you have criticism - much of which is valid, and that we<br>
> are (again) doing our best to address. But you acting like a bully with<br>
> respect to your criticism isn't going to help anyone. Quite honestly, it<br>
> comes across like mortar fire, and I can't imagine any of us being all that<br>
> amenable to such friendly fire.<br>
<br>
</div>These are just words here, expressing my opinions. Relax. I'm<br>
frustrated, I'm annoyed, and I'm exasperated with trying to<br>
communicate the problems I'm seeing here. If I use strong language,<br>
then that's because I feel strongly about it.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>That you recognize that your words represent frustration, annoyance, and exasperation is all the more reason to ensure that they are delivered in the appropriate venue.</div>
<div><br></div><div>We all feel strongly about it, or we wouldn't be volunteering on the Theme review team. We all have the same, ultimate objectives.</div><div><br></div><div>Chip </div></div>