All themes currently in Trac are being reviewed to current standards, which is to say WordPress version 3.0 functionality, which conflicts with: "... Theme developers will have 10-12 months to bring their
Themes into compliance with the current WP version, and 5-6 months to
bring their Themes into compliance with -1 WP version."<br><br>More an observation than anything else, I understand your point, but this potential contradiction would need to be addressed.<br><br><br>Cais<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Chip Bennett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net">chip@chipbennett.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
That's why I would propose a 2-cycle cutoff as more reasonable.<div><br></div><div>While WordPress 2.8 was released in June 2009 - and with it, various required functionality - we are giving Theme developers until June 2010 to conform. Granted, we at that point require that the Theme *also* meet the standards introduced with WordPress 2.9 - but I don't believe that requirement to be overly cumbersome.</div>
<div><br></div><div>On average, Theme developers will have 10-12 months to bring their Themes into compliance with the current WP version, and 5-6 months to bring their Themes into compliance with -1 WP version.</div><div>
<br></div><div><font color="#888888">Chip</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Edward Caissie <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:edward.caissie@gmail.com" target="_blank">edward.caissie@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
I would expect the only way to get around a reviews in these cases is if the suspension is based on a date when a new core function was added that is now considered a "must" include, for example, body_class(). Anything prior to the introduction of that function would not pass the Theme Review process; and, that will essentially take us to a single release cycle!<br>
<br>Anyone notice how slippery the slope is getting?<br><br><br>Cais.<div><div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Chip Bennett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">chip@chipbennett.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">I think that will be asking too much of the Theme Review team.<div><br></div><div>We already know that, given the commit date of a Theme, which subsequent features and deprecations that Theme will not support.</div>
<div><br>
</div><div>I don't think it is asking too much of the Theme developers to familiarize themselves with the Theme Review standards, and to ensure that their re-submitted Theme meets those standards.</div><div><br></div>
<div>A "formal" review of Themes that we know will fail that review adds no value to the process, and gets us no closer to our goal.</div><div><br></div><div><font color="#888888">Chip</font><div><div></div><div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Edward Caissie <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:edward.caissie@gmail.com" target="_blank">edward.caissie@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">bah ... suspend 'em all and let Matt sort 'em out! (j/k)<br><br>Actually, after the first full pass to get somewhat current, I would suggest simply starting with the oldest (read: last updated per Extend/Themes) and run full reviews on the remaining themes, that is, create a Trac ticket and all that it entails; then, formally review the theme with the idea of reaching a target of a (minimum) two release cycle for repository themes.<br>
<br><br>Cais.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div></div><div>On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:philip@frumph.net" target="_blank">philip@frumph.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div></div><div>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">* Like you relayed later in your comments,
it's all about the transitioning, this is the first pass, then theme admins
determine what steps to take afterwards based on how effective it was ya?
and adjust methodology based on outcome.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Alright, so these are the steps as per noted by
cais, chip and myself.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">1) Post the forum post, get it stickied. Note
date of suspension as sept 1st (2 weeks)</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">2) Update related codex material - note this is the
first pass and that in 2 months time after the first pass we're going to be
doing the same for all themes 2 revisions previous (2 major revisions), i.e 1
year.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">3) Field any questions on said forum post.
</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">4) Transfer ownerships by requests from ORIGINAL
owner.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">--- Wait two weeks.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">5) Start suspending those that have a date previous
to december of 2008.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">6) Wait until november of 2010, start the revision
suspension of those 2.8.* and previous.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">A) Find a way to automate this with
scripting.</font></div><div><div></div><div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr">
<div style="font: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(228, 228, 228);"><b>From:</b>
<a title="chip@chipbennett.net" href="mailto:chip@chipbennett.net" target="_blank">Chip
Bennett</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a title="philip@frumph.net" href="mailto:philip@frumph.net" target="_blank">Philip M. Hofer (Frumph)</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" href="mailto:theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org" target="_blank">theme-reviewers@lists.wordpress.org</a>
</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 16, 2010 8:49
AM</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [theme-reviewers] Discussion
on suspension of old themes in the extend/themes</div>
<div><br></div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
<div style="color: rgb(80, 0, 80);">On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 10:28 AM,
Philip M. Hofer (Frumph) <span dir="ltr"><<a style="color: rgb(42, 93, 176);" href="mailto:philip@frumph.net" target="_blank">philip@frumph.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">After a lengthy discussion with Cais in the
#wp-themes we've come to a conclusion that a 2 revision suspension would not
be entirely justified and would harshly impact the themes available that
still will work with the 3.0 series albiet even if using deprecated and non
standard code.</font></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div></div>
<div>I'm not entirely sure I understand this reasoning. "Suspending" a Theme
in the repository would have no impact on any current users. It would merely
prevent the Theme from being downloaded by a *new* user.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Why would we want users downloading Themes that are clearly obsolete, and
potentially buggy - if not security-vulnerable?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(80, 0, 80);">
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">We've thought about it and discussed the
functionality of the wordpress themes and what they do and what revision
base at this time would be best to spend anything of it and less
then. </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Anything from december 2008 and before should
be suspended for 'old and needs upgraded' themes, that is the release time
when 2.7 came out, 2.7 was the the release that really gave themes something
more then previous revisions that match more closely with with what 'works'
in a theme. It was in essence really 2.8, but 2.7 was the start
of it. So anything previous to the 2.7 release really can be
considered old and needing updated.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Then on the 3.1 release, do the 2.8 as the base
and so on.</font></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div></div>
<div>That's probably fair, for a first-pass effort. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>At some point, though, we probably need to tighten the leash a bit.
Giving Theme developers 2 release cycles (which normally translates to 10
months to a year) should be sufficient time to update an actively supported
Theme, no?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(80, 0, 80);">
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">The concern is the 'warning' to developers that
when it will be happening and enough word out to them that it will be
happening. Giving ample time for developers who might want to 'rescue'
old themes from the repository to revive them.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Which brings up two thoughts, information
needed to change ownership of said themes and ample time for developers to
revive them. And information theme developers that it's going to
be happening.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Me? I don't care, suspend em, if they want them
back up, they resubmit them.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div></div>
<div>Exactly. We want actively supported Themes in the repository, right? If
so, then we need to hold developers accountable to providing a modicum
of active support: to wit, keeping the Theme updated with current
functionality and replacing deprecated functions.</div>
<div style="color: rgb(80, 0, 80);">
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Cais wants mass emails done, however
collectively finding the authors emails would be a chore, let alone the fact
that WordPress practically *never* mass emails and I doubt that it will ever
happen, ever. So alternatives need to be addressed as the
following:</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">So what's the minimal that should be
done?</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">A stickied post on the theme developement forum
and a codex entry, in the most relevant places.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">What would be optimal?</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">A post by Matt or the developers blog that gets
seen in the RSS feed list of all wordpress sites, with the minimal post in
the forum and codex entry information.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">The idea' is to not be 'harsh' about the
suspension of said themes, hence to backtrack to the pre 2.7 release, which
keeps WordPress in a good light, while still giving a couple weeks ample
warning.</font></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div></div>
<div>I still like the old "update within one month of the WordPress version
release, or the Theme is suspended" route. In other words, within one month
after WordPress 3.1 comes out, all Themes not updated since the release of
WordPress 2.9 are automatically suspended, until they are updated.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>(Of course, if a given WordPress release doesn't incorporate any new
functionality, or newly deprecate any functions, then it could be excluded
from the suspension time frame.)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(80, 0, 80);">
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">------ Side Note:</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Information about how to 'take over' an old
theme, i.e. reviving it should be noted as well and that all old themes
should have their original authors contacted then original author of said
theme needs to email the repository theme admin requesting the ownership
change, pretty much how it's already being done.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Side effect of the removal/suspension would
also be that when they resubmit they will be automatically added to the
theme trac when resubmit, which is a goal that would benefit
everyone.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Additonal note: While the GPL Compatibility
issue arose with the suspensions previously and there were some very vocal
people about suspending the themes at that time, it was still done
regardless of those complaints. It was justified and responsible
of the theme repository admin to do it. It is the same with
this; The theme repository has an underlying responsibility to the end
user to keep the repository up to date and in a manageable state to the end
user.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div></div>
<div>Agreed; provided that the way it is handled is the absolute best that it
can be. I'm advocating suspending outdated Themes, but I also think that Theme
developers should be given every opportunity to know that the change is
coming, and to know how to avoid Theme suspension.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Communication is key. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Chip</div></span></blockquote></div></div></div>
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