[theme-reviewers] GPL and limiting usage

Wed Oct 9 22:56:41 UTC 2013

I'd like to point, once again, to something I've already said on this 
matter.

 From the actual GPL license <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html>:

 > "Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not 
covered by this License; they are outside its scope."

Are users restricted from copying, distributing, or modifying the code?  
**Any** activity beyond that has nothing to do with the GPL. If we want 
to continue talking about the GPL, fine.  But, please answer this 
question first.

If we want to discuss our policy on themes like this, that would be a 
much more fruitful discussion, one in which I think many of us would be 
more likely to agree on.

On 10/9/2013 5:49 PM, Trent Lapinski wrote:
> If the Theme Review Team and .org Admins are confused by PageLines 
> marketing then what do you think the average customer thinks when they 
> find out they're stuck?
>
> People won't realize what PageLines "service" actually means until 
> PageLines flips the kill switch and they lose access to features they 
> already paid for and can no longer update the website they've built.
>
> Your understanding of the GPL was correct according to the GNU.
>
> I do not believe Otto and Nacin were incorrect in their logic or 
> reasoning, I think they simply didn't understand the full application 
> and deceptive nature of what PageLines is actually doing until now.
>
> We got clarification from the GNU on this issue so we could bring 
> about a resolution and properly educate everyone on what applies here 
> in this particular case and for future similar cases.
>
> As far as I'm aware we've never seen anyone try to do this before, 
> it's a very clever strategy to lock users in that looks like a support 
> service at first glance but its much more then that.
>
> It's a usage limitation that contradicts users rights as outlined in 
> the GPL, and is also clearly against WordPress.org 
> <http://WordPress.org> policy.
>
> There is nothing wrong with software as a service if you are actually 
> providing a service. What PageLines is claiming is their software is 
> the service, which is simply not true. It's a marketing ploy that even 
> a lot of people here fell for which further illustrates the deceptive 
> nature of what they're trying to accomplish.
>
> --Trent Lapinski
> =============
> CEO of CyberChimps Inc
>
> On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:20 PM, Srikanth Koneru <tskk79 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:tskk79 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> It is not against GPL, GPL gives you legal permission to copy, 
>> distribute and/or modify the software.
>> You can do all that with their plugin. (atleast pagelines say you can 
>> edit out the restrictions)
>>
>> Its not already paid for, plugin is not just $8.
>>
>> I always thought this wasn't allowed as per WPORG policy, but 
>> Otto/Nacin says it is so it is. Maybe their higher up's may overrule 
>> them and until they do its allowed under WPORG policy.
>>
>> Its not morally/ethically wrong because they are putting the pricing 
>> plan upfront, users are buying knowing that they have to pay a 
>> monthly fee.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 3:41 AM, Trent Lapinski 
>> <trent at cyberchimps.com <mailto:trent at cyberchimps.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Selling people a WordPress theme is selling them a tool to build
>>     a website with.
>>
>>     How would you feel if you went to Home Depot and were told you
>>     can't buy the hammer you need to build a bird house, you instead
>>     have to join Home Depots "subscription" to get access to the
>>     hammer you need to build a bird house, but you're only allowed to
>>     build 1 bird house with that hammer. If you want to build more
>>     then 1 bird house you have to pay signficnatly more money monthly
>>     to do so.
>>
>>     If you finishing building your bird house and stop paying they
>>     will take your hammer away, and also lock you out of features
>>     from the birdhouse you already built and paid for.
>>
>>     That's what PageLines is doing, and thats why this is against the
>>     GPL, WordPress.org <http://wordpress.org/> Policy, and morally
>>     and ethically wrong.
>>
>>     This has nothing to do with upgrade fees, support, or anything
>>     else. That has to do with limiting and crippling software that
>>     customers have already paid for and forcing them to continue to
>>     pay for something or else they lose access to the tools they need
>>     to maintain or update their website in the future.
>>
>>     This is not a support service, but merely a clever way to lock
>>     users in forever.
>>
>>     --Trent Lapinski
>>     =============
>>     CEO of CyberChimps Inc
>>
>>     On Oct 9, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Bryan Hadaway <bhadaway at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:bhadaway at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>>     Whatever the case, I feel we're actually getting much closer to
>>>     all being at least in the same book, maybe not quite the same
>>>     page yet. But, much closer to a reasonable and productive
>>>     understanding/conclusion.
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>>
>>
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