[theme-reviewers] tracking code in themes
Justin Tadlock
justin at justintadlock.com
Fri Mar 9 20:56:22 UTC 2012
They don't really ask, but it's a part of the WordPress.org's Privacy
Policy.
http://wordpress.org/about/privacy/
On 3/9/2012 2:53 PM, Joost de Valk wrote:
> Let's be clear: at which point does WP ask for permission to check for
> plugin/theme/core updates?
>
> Cheers,
> Joost
>
> Sent from my iPad, so please excuse typo's and brevity
>
> On Mar 9, 2012, at 21:01, Chip Bennett <chip at chipbennett.net
> <mailto:chip at chipbennett.net>> wrote:
>
>> The very act of pinging a third party upon activation of a Theme -
>> and doing so without the informed consent of the end user - is a
>> violation of the free-software principle that users have the right to
>> use software "/without being required to communicate about it with
>> the developer or any other specific entity/".
>>
>> The rest of your arguments still miss the fundamental point that the
>> issue here is not the usefulness/benefit of the service, but rather
>> that the *informed consent of the end user* is paramount, and is
>> required, both as a matter of adherence to free software philosophy
>> and also as a matter of wordpress.org <http://wordpress.org> policy.
>>
>> Chip
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Trent Lapinski <trent at cyberchimps.com
>> <mailto:trent at cyberchimps.com>> wrote:
>>
>> For the record, PressTrends is not a "tracker" it doesn't track
>> users WordPress usage, or personal information.
>>
>> It simply tells you when someone activates a theme and reports
>> back the version number of the activation and what version of
>> WordPress they are using. That's the meat of it. It does a few
>> other minor things, but the users aren't be "tracked", and we
>> aren't getting live data from the users or any personal information.
>>
>> Furthermore, this information is publicly available to begin
>> with. By viewing the resources / source of any WordPress install
>> you can see the stylesheet which contains the version number of
>> the theme. Which means this information is publicly available on
>> all WordPress websites running any WordPress theme.
>>
>> Is it wrong to aggregate such information? I do not believe so,
>> and even Otto has stated this is something Automattic has been
>> looking to replicate for WordPress.org <http://WordPress.org>
>> themselves, so the "ethical" argument for PressTrends is entirely
>> invalid.
>>
>> If WordPress.org <http://WordPress.org> offered these same
>> features you would all think its the greatest thing since sliced
>> bread, and no one would be raising privacy concerns because there
>> is no private information being made available.
>>
>> No one is having their privacy violated, PressTrends simply
>> aggregates useful publicly avaliable analytic data. That's it.
>>
>>
>> <Screen Shot 2012-03-09 at 11.23.32 AM.png>
>>
>> --Trent Lapinski
>> =============
>> CEO of CyberChimps LLC
>> trent at cyberchimps.com <mailto:trent at cyberchimps.com>
>> Mobile (714) 904-4280 <tel:%28714%29%20904-4280>
>> Twitter @trentlapinski
>> http://CyberChimps.com
>>
>> On Mar 8, 2012, at 6:35 PM, Emil Uzelac wrote:
>>
>>> oh and as far as checking if the Theme is on warez or not is
>>> completely useless, don't even bother, anyone that sells them
>>> commercially will tell you not to waste your time, you report
>>> one bad link, 5 more will appear in few hours, than you report
>>> that 5, 20 more will come up shortly after that...this is the
>>> war we can't win, at least not for right now.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Emil Uzelac <emil at themeid.com
>>> <mailto:emil at themeid.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Neither one was good to be honest with you. GA tracks more
>>> than just how the Theme is being used and that isn't right.
>>> For Adobe, Sure if you let them, I personally don't allow
>>> anything to go out, not even simple report back to them when
>>> something crashes. We all like more details, better
>>> statistics for greater improvement, that's why people
>>> invented surveys, polls etc... Most of the time this is
>>> covered in support forum, if they like your work, they will
>>> tell you a) if something goes wrong b) if there's something
>>> that they don't like and just another way of communicating
>>> with users or customers if we're talking about commercial
>>> Themes.
>>>
>>> Emil
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Daniel Fenn
>>> <danielx386 at gmail.com <mailto:danielx386 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> So how is one suppose to check of see if it was
>>> downloaded from a werz
>>> site? Adobe does this all the time. Or was it GA that
>>> pissed then off?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Emil Uzelac
>>> <emil at themeid.com <mailto:emil at themeid.com>> wrote:
>>> > Back in late 2009 I contracted for commercial Theme
>>> site where they had two
>>> > forms of tracking, one was via Google Analytics and
>>> second one hidden to
>>> > check if the Theme was purchased or downloaded from ""
>>> sites. In matter of
>>> > months they went from "all star" to "where are the
>>> customers" type of thing.
>>> > Long story short users don't like to be tracked one
>>> way or another and
>>> > honestly I don't blame them at all. Permission or not
>>> "touching things that
>>> > should not be touched" are never good idea.
>>> >
>>> > If one wants to track and get the general ideas where
>>> the Themes go, simply
>>> > use your very own GA. There are many things you can do
>>> with Analytics beyond
>>> > how many visitors one have on monthly basis. Not 100%
>>> accurate, but it does
>>> > get close.
>>> >
>>> > This is from my marketing perspective. Privacy is
>>> issue everywhere nowadays
>>> > and once this leaks to the public, your sales will go
>>> down to toilet, please
>>> > believe me on this.
>>> >
>>> > Imagine this title on a popular WP News sites "Example
>>> Theme Site Now Tracks
>>> > User's Behavior". warez
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Emil
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Bruce Wampler
>>> <weavertheme at gmail.com <mailto:weavertheme at gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> As the author of a popular WordPress theme, I would
>>> like to add my strong
>>> >> agreement with the opt-in only policy for trackers
>>> such as PressTrends.
>>> >>
>>> >> I find Trent Lapinski's arguments for the
>>> harmlessness of opt-out tracking
>>> >> self-serving and disingenuous. Anyone with the least
>>> bit of understanding of
>>> >> the difference between opt-in and opt-out, and how
>>> that affects user
>>> >> privacy, would never argue for allowing any kind of
>>> automatic or opt-out
>>> >> tracking of any kind in any repository based
>>> WordPress theme. It is simply
>>> >> the wrong thing to do.
>>> >>
>>> >> Maybe PressTrends isn't any different in concept or
>>> privacy issues than
>>> >> Google's tracking code, or even WP stats, but both of
>>> those are opt-in -
>>> >> they don't happen unless the web admin actively adds
>>> them.
>>> >>
>>> >> Personally, I believe any sort of tracking should
>>> require permission from
>>> >> the visitor to the site - but that is a much larger
>>> battle.
>>> >>
>>> >> Bruce Wampler
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>> >> theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org
>>> <mailto:theme-reviewers at lists.wordpress.org>
>>> >>
>>> http://lists.wordpress.org/mailman/listinfo/theme-reviewers
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
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