[theme-reviewers] What is wrong with you people? You rejectedTarski?

[Chip Bennett]

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Demetris Kikizas <kikizas at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Doug Stewart <zamoose at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm probably going to regret this, but...
> >
> You probably should.  Calling someone you don’t know a **** is not a
> nice thing to do.  But I don’t mind personally.  Words are cheap.
>
> >> You want respect?  Earn it!
> >
> > Demetris:
> > What, precisely, do you intend to accomplish with statements such as
> > this? Why are basic respect and decency something that people such as
> > yourself demand people "earn", instead of something accorded to people
> > as a base component of social interactions?
> >
> I did not disrespect anyone at a basic human level.  I said that the
> people of this team are clueless.  Is there some written or unwritten
> law that says we should not say to clueless people they are clueless
> out of respect for their fundamental humanity or decency?  Since when
> is everyone an expert on everything?
>

You miss his point completely. The point is that, clueless or not, people
inherently deserve respect - and such respect includes the manner in which
one points out their cluelessness. In this regard, your posts to this email
list have failed miserably.

>
> The people of this team put together a mindless list of empty, formal
> criteria of “quality”


You are welcome to contribute your suggestions, if you believe that you have
a better grasp of what constitutes quality with respect to WordPress Themes.


> and they seem to think that, with that list in
> hand, they are in a position to judge the quality of a theme that
> helped define what a good theme is and what a good theme project is.
>

Is there a particular reason that you are so *personally* offended that
Tarski failed a review? Further, is there a reason that you are so agitated
by this personal offense that you would spend roughly three times as long
berating the Theme Review team as it would take to fix the Theme itself?

>
> This concept is absurd.  Utterly absurd.  Anyone that sees any sense
> in it is clueless.
>

False dichotomy and begging the question are not useful tools of
argumentation.

>
> As for respect, which you are chastising me about and which Mr. Chip
> Bennett demands for his theme-reviewing expertise,


I've never demanded respect for "theme-reviewing expertise"; rather, I
demand that the Theme Review team be treated with respect out a sense of of
basic human decency, which is a fundamental pillar of a successful WordPress
community. Others have pointed out to us the errors of our ways (which we
have made and will continue to make - we are only human, after all), but
have done so *respectfully*. Strangely, such people get a much better
response from us.

Further, we *do*, in fact, have more important things to do than to engage
in inflamed reparte on the mailing list. The current review queue stands at
93 open tickets. The purpose of this mailing list is to discuss Theme
Reviews - not to defend our actions to you or to anyone else.


> where is the
> respect due to Ben Eastaugh?
>

Where is the *disrespect* that you assume has been afforded Mr. Eastaugh?

>
> Where is the respect due to Ben Eastaugh’s time?


Placing a couple of quote marks around a handful of function parameters is
not an undue burden on his time.


> Does anyone in this
> team have any idea what it means to be offering support (and free
> support, mind you) for a theme as popular as Tarski?


I fail to understand how such a time commitment is any concern of ours? As a
team, it is our responsibility to evaluate all Themes objectively and
fairly. I see no reason to show deference to any particular Theme on matters
as basic as PHP errors and deprecated-function calls.


> Is what Ben
> Eastaugh has already done for WordPress not enough, and we want to
> force him to eliminate a debug notice[1] or to adopt the
> comment_form() function[2] that came out just two months ago, in order
> to accept his theme in the official repo?
>

Yes, as a matter of fact. Especially with respect to comment_form(). Plugins
written for WordPress 3.0 depend on that function. I can think of at least
three (one of which, I wrote) that depend on comment_form().

>
> Where, finally, is the respect for Tarski’s users in all that?
>

Ensuring that the Theme remains compatible with current and future plugins
is, in fact, showing considerable respect to Tarski's users.

>
> > I understand that your initial message to the list may well have been
> > a bit of a sarcastic/venting sort of affair, but to be frank, venting
> > in a public forum is a very poor way to convince others of the
> > rectitude of your line of argumentation.
> >
> I was not venting and I was not sarcastic either.  I believe that this
> group proves by its actions and by its ideas that it is simply not fit
> for the task they have taken upon themselves.  It should be disbanded
> because it harms WordPress.  I wish this happens sooner than later.
>

You're welcome to voice that opinion directly to Joseph Scott and Matt
Mullenweg. I volunteer my time and efforts only for as long as they are
needed and wanted. You are more than welcome to try to do better. In fact,
given your apparent passion for WordPress Themes, we could very likely use
your time and energy on the Theme Review team.

>
> > In short, please familiarize yourself with Wheaton's Law. The rest of
> > us would do well to contemplate John Gabriel's Greater Internet
> > #@$%-wad Theory.
> >
> See my first paragraph.
>

Again you miss his point. I will assume that something is lost in
translation.

And with that, I will once again step back out of this (time-wasting and
mostly useless) discussion.

Chip
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