[wp-hackers] For those who don't subscribe to the wp docs mailing list:

[Alex]

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:13:49 -0700, Craig Hartel <milquetoast at telus.net> wrote:
> What follows is a message from Podz. Podz is, in my opinion, one of the greatest
> contributors in the WordPress community. He tirelessly answers questions on the
<snip>
> 
> Is it considered either 'uncool' or beneath some people to try and help out in
> the forums ?
> 

If you impersonate others as such, quite possibly. I personally find
it difficult to use the forums because they are constrained to a tenth
of my monitor resolution, long threads take a long time to read - to
even find out if the issue was resolved, and last I have a day job
that unfortunately keeps me from supporting an open source product
which I personally use.

> If I log into irc, there are dozens of people there, Dozens. Yet how many
> frequent the forums ? Hardly any.
> 
> I've read on several blogs recently that people just "don't want to help those
> that can't search", or "are fed up of answering the same crap" or other similar
> stuff.
> 
> Are you aware just how many people are having problems logging in ?
> How many people are having trouble with php files ?
> How many people who appear to have unique problems, not of their own making, but
> no answers ?
nope, nope, and nope.

> 
> The simple fact is, all the plugins and functions are of no use whatsoever to
> someone who has either been locked out of their blog, or cannot get the thing to
> work in the first place.
true

> 
> Hell, I know how to search, I know where to look, and I'm not even bothered
> about breaking my blog, yet when I have come into irc, I get roundly ignored for
> the most part. People shouldn't have to join and repeat their questions ad
> nauseum - they should be answered. And if you are afk, then FFS indicate it. I
> went there this morning, indicated a post that needed help, and left. Has anyone
> helped ? No. Were there people there who could have helped ? Yes.
> 
> Why not have #wordpress-hackers and #wordpress-help ? Why ? Because those
> currently in channel would not join the second one there.

Nobody has tried that. Might not be a bad idea. In fact, people might
just show up in there. But what good does that do if nobody answers.
Maintaining a status which displays availability in IRC is not
obligatory and messaging someone without their permission is somewhat
discourteous. If they are not responding, they are likely away. You
seem correct and frustrated.

> 
> So I've answered the most questions on the forums, and for the most part they
> aren't repeats, they are getting more and more specific, and increasingly taking
> myself and other regular answerers out of our depth. I'm sure I'd get leapt on
> from all over if I directed someone to do something that deleted their blog, but
> until then, it seems that those that code, those that know PHP try to make some
> sort of name for themselves, or flesh out their cv, without any real regard for
> those thousands of people who just want to blog and hit problems.
> 
> The simple fact is that too many people seem to want to leap aboard, be
> associated, get the 'kudos' yet aren't prepared to go out of their way hardly at
> all to answer questions from others.
Freud

> 
> I've been told that the 'hackers' list gets a ton of mail, yet this list is
> dead. And despite this, it's some of those very hackers who will lament the poor
> state of the docs ! If only you tried half as hard to help in that direction we
> would have great docs by now !
Indeed. But what are great docs w/o incomplete software? Chicken and
egg there; it'll always be better on the other side until the software
reaches a very mature stage.

> 
> I thought the situation on the forums was bad a while ago given the volume of
> posts, but it's worse. And when 1.3 gets released ? And things break all over
> the place ? Well I guess a lot of smugness will exude from the irc channel.
> 
> And yes, given my contribution to WordPress, I am entitled to have an equal
> voice. Me not being able to write PHP actually puts me closer to the average
> blogger - and there is a lot of them that need help, like it or not.
> 

I use WordPress. It's open source, and I'm not obligated to donate,
code, support forums, or even flame the mailing lists. Neither am I
obligated to feel shame, guilt, or selfishness for not doing anything.

It would be a much better point to display a concern for the lack of
sufficient suport than to redicule with disdain the habits of
participants in an open source project. That said, this is open source
and anyone has a right to their opinion.

Back to the chicken and egg... the support required for a product is
relevant to it's quality. I personally believe WP is a quality
product. And I see it get better everyday. Because of people who do
contribute to the product, whether by support or code. But, it won't
be perfect today or tomorrow and neither will the support.

You have contributed greatly and that has been recognized. For the
sake of producing a professional product, please provide some
suggestions as to how the community may support your efforts. You have
provided a vast amount of support and may have experience to suggest a
more competent solution than others.